Honestly this one is my bad. Girlfriend bought us hockey tickets for Christmas (she's from Minnesota) and I hadn't yet trained her in looking at schedules. We'll watch film and work to get better going forward.
Cronin's press conference is worth watching. These kids are lucky to have a teacher like him. I'm pretty down on this team, but this guy is going to have the team ready for the pac 12 tourney. He's determined to get this team into the ncaa tourney, but this roster is going to make it tough.
Guess we'll see how ready his team will be for the Pac-12 tourney, as he has said before that the players lacked aptitude to learn and apply, and that 99% of freshmen don't get better as the year goes on... :-)
Waiting4Ever, given all we have seen from Cronin over the last several years...
1) Do you think he is the right coach for the environment of present day college ball with regard to: recruiting, NIL, style of play and style of coaching?
2) Do you think that if he had recruited the 'fighters' he refers to, he is capable of winning a championship with his defense first, offense in last place, trademark?
Ms. Tamara, I presume what you're actually asking for is my opinion of Mick Cronin as head coach at UCLA. Based on his reputation as a Tier-1 coach (he's not at Elite level yet) and all of the great accomplishments since his hiring, I believe the two-time Pac-12 Coach of the Year has certainly earned the right to continue working on current player development and recruiting and try to get the team back on the winning track (next season). We haven't seen it consistently this year, but his Bruin teams have usually been highly competitive, due to the tenacity and resilience that he instills (perservering despite injuries, winning on the road, hanging tough against good teams, etc.). And I'm fine with his style of coaching too. At least he's not verbally and physically abusive like Gregg Marshall was at Wichita State, for example.
If Coach Cronin is able to recruit players similar to the ones he inherited and recruited in his first 2 years at UCLA, then sure, I think he's capable of eventually winning a championship with a great defense that can hold opponents in check. Not sure that his offense is in "last place" or considered lower priority, but it seems he prefers the slow-paced, grind-it-out, one-on-one, iso-oriented type of attack that can be boring or painful to watch when shots aren't falling. I'm not a real fan of that style of offense, so if he has players that can win with it, then that's great. Note that it's really, really hard to reach the Final Four, let alone win it all. Regarding the coaches mentioned in the other post, even Coach Few didn't reach the Final Four until his 18th season at Gonzaga and got there a 2nd time in his 22nd season. Coaches Enfield, Miller, and Lloyd so far have zero Final Fours, while Coach Cronin got to the Final Four in only his 2nd year at UCLA. (Sorry, I don't know who Alford is.) This season was expected to be a rebuilding year because of the roster turnover, but it has certainly been filled with lots of frustration, hasn't it? Anyway, I think UCLA still has a good coach that needs continued support (including NIL funding) in order to succeed. That's my $0.02 worth, just for you!
Have to also add that expressing joy when the Bruins are doing well, venting when things go bad, and reading the wide range of opinions, reactions, and predictions (both extremes and everything in between) on The Mighty Bruin have been entertaining and thought provoking. No "hopium" required. Stay passionate--Go Bruins!
Not sure how many of us saw the article in yesterday's LA Times full of quotes from recent former players (Singleton, Jaylen Clark, Chris Smith, Myles Johnson) all praising Mick's intensity and saying they learned from him along with a quote from Sebastian Mack "but, I mean, the stuff he does say usually ends up happening"... I'm not so certain that the players are as bothered as we can be outside the locker room watching his "style".
Clearly truly effective coaching is inspiring players to reach their best and implement the team's vision... But players aren't avatars that a coach can control with a joystick! I mean when you call a timeout to instruct your players "under no circumstances allow this one guy to dribble up the court" and then those same players watch, wave, and weakly sorta reach out as that one guy does exactly that - I'm sorry, that's also on the players. There's a reason no one has gone unbeaten since 1976, well before 1-and-done, portals, and G-League/Euro pathways... players at this age and time of development aren't consistent.
Excellent L.A. Times article--most players at that age haven't accumulated enough experience and maturity yet, so Coach Cronin's tough coaching style is just what they need to help them deal with adversity on the court and also to better prepare them to overcome challenges they face after they leave UCLA.
“We had three days of practice that have been sporadic, but last week, we had our best three practices of the year.”
--U$C Coach Enfield
“It’s a simple game. The team that plays harder usually wins. They played much harder than us. They were more physical, they had humility, they came in here looking for redemption. We had no humility. Show me somebody that’s not humble and I’ll show you somebody getting ready to get humbled. We had our worst week of practice of the season. I failed miserably to get my team ready for the fight that was coming today and I’m thoroughly embarrassed. And I apologize to the people wearing the four letters. Yes, we really struggled making the open shots, but that has nothing to do with all the stuff I talked about. The team that wins the fight usually wins the game. And they won the fight in every way. We were awful.”
That's what inconsistent teams do. And it's why inconsistent teams end up with .500 records. One week they look like a tournament team, the next week a last place team. We got blown out by a weak Utah team, then almost beat top 10 Arizona. We pulled out some tough games during a misleading 6 game win streak, then lost to an awful USC team. Who knows what will show up against Arizona this week.
TMB crowd disparages Enfield's coaching acumen with great glee, while Andy has a winning record against CMC and also signs the recruits that Cronin offers.
Excuse me, but Enfield has been the USC coach for 11 years. He has 5 tournament appearances and only got out of the first round twice. That's pathetic. It's not even mediocre. Steve Alford is objectively a better coach. Tim Floyd had a significantly better track record at USC and got canned. Not sure why they keep him around, but I'm glad they do.
That sure was one heck of a crappy home performance by the Bruins--and against a pretty lousy U$C team to boot. At least Coach Cronin is also implicating himself for his team's lack of preparedness and competitiveness. Too bad he can't shoot baskets for them too! Looks like the entire roster requires another season (or more) to mature and reach their full potential. If this team somehow gets hot and wins the Pac-12 championship this season to earn an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, the accomplishment would be comparable to reaching the Final Four...
Anyway, about the only positive thing that happened for UCLA on Saturday was the release of Coach Wooden's limited-edition "Forever" stamps from the USPS, which I ordered online:
The lackluster effort and lousy performance against U$C in front of a sellout crowd at Pauley Pavilion was awful, but I didn't expect it would trigger any discussion regarding Coach Cronin as head coach at UCLA, which I believe is unwarranted. He's a proven winner and has transformed the program to be highly competitive. Obviously, his roster reload didn't result in a consistently well-performing team this season (so far), but the pre-season expectation of a 3rd-place finish in the final year of the Pac-12 Conference is close to being met.
In fairness, he's really only like 4 or 5 people -- who have been exposed by Dmitri as not really knowing basketball -- who are disgruntled. These people live off the highs and lows and have very short memories. These folks will call for a lifetime contract for Foster if he starts 4-0, but want him fired a month later if he loses 4 straight.
Mick is a budding elite coach. There are not many coaches who have run out a title contender three years in a row. Hell, there are not many coaches who have run out a title contender even once without the help of a dominant one and done. Given the roster turnover, UCLA's record and performance this season was about as predictable as the Warriors missing the playoffs the year Curry got hurt.
CBH had a 3 year run for title contention. Is he then elite? How is he regarded? There's much "he lost his way" attribution, and that he was kept 2 years too long, but oh those years of Camelot!
I thought Coach Howland's Bruins ran into some bad luck in having to face a team (Florida) that was just better than everybody else at the time. It's also unfortunate that he eventually succumbed to external pressure to change things up and allowing the team discipline to deteriorate as a result.
Anyway, not sure how he'll fare after this season is over, but here's a few subjective pre-season evaluations that seem pretty consistent in rating Coach Cronin among the top-15 or so, which is pretty good considering how the previous AD bungled past head coach searching efforts::
The last few games appear to be a bit of smoke as this team has reverted to what all thought they were truly capable of.
I think cronin is going to wind up as howland 2.0. Not sure that he’s capable of replicating last season again with his recruiting capability starting to catch up to him.
Now that this season is over, can we start talking about next season yet? I’m really curious how next season will be any better. The attitude problems come when players disagree with the coach. Players butt heads when they disagree with the head coaches style. I would guess that mack is one of those players and find it hard to see how he’s turning it around at ucla with mick in charge. Mara is not a capable starter and won’t be for the next few years if he stays. He’s too much of a project as you’re trying to coach aggressiveness which isn’t that coach able. Some players have it and some don’t… Mara just doesn’t have it. Stef is the most streaky shooter on the team and can’t defend. Dylan is also dependent on his players making shots and when they don’t, his game is almost worthless…. Mclendon is not a starter either.
Who are you looking forward to next season? What gets you excited about this program? One more season to go! Looking forward to some change already
Well stated Baskets. The problems are many and some likely can't be seen directly by us, but the following issues seem glaring IMHO...
1) The coaching staff presently is woefully inept at vetting or evaluating players who are 'fighters' (not flagrant 2.0 ers) and who understand what it means to wear and represent the Four Letters. Youth is not an excuse. Character is character.
2) Cronin can't decide who he is: the public shamer of the players he recruited or the blame taker of the players he recruited and hence the outcome on the court.
3) Cronin not only loses to suc over and over but loses on last second shots over and over revealing poor end of game management. And thus, the repeating nightmares of Gonzaga, for example.
4) Cronin's offenses are invariably not high scoring and rely almost solely on defense which eventually proves costly. Offense and defense are both critical to winning championships and offense is not his trademark.
5) Kyle Smith at Wazzu has achieved a lot more with his players than Cronin. Enough said.
Even Alfie with his ego understood his shortcomings, heard the disgruntled cries of Bruin faithful, and added a defensive "expert" to his staff, albeit in Bartow2.0. CMC is stubborn, set and absolutely will not change nor adapt.
And he really has no reason to. Alford was a mediocre coach on his best day, with actual shortcomings. Mick has a 15+ year track record of success. His program works. He took a 4th place team to the Final Four in his second season here. He followed that with two terrific seasons. Don't mess with success.
I agree that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and "don't mess with success." But we all can stand for improvement, and there is an entire dimension of play that lags.
right, but it's not the system. it's that the players have not yet developed offensively. Keep in mind, on Cronin's other UCLA teams, most of our starting 5 would barely be getting any playing time. These kids were thrust into action before they were ready. Color me not surprised that an offense build around Adem Bona is not a top 100 offense in the nation.
UCLA had a more efficient offense than defense in 2021 and 2022, and the #21 offense last year. You are basing an entire dimension lagging on one team that has struggled to shoot the ball this year. That is not a pattern.
we can't talk about next season without talking about NIL. Otherwise it's kind of like blaming an NBA coach for the GM's failure to sign any decent players. Coaches just don't have the same control of what players they bring in anymore.
But I think Mara is going to be a pretty good player by the time he is a junior or senior. Lazar would be a great rotation piece on a good roster, but that is not happening next season.
I don’t know about the nil… so let’s talk about it. Do the below programs have more nil money than ucla?
Purdue
San Diego state
BYU
Wake forest
Dayton
Colorado state
New Mexico
Florida Atlantic
Utah state
Smu
Nevada
Boise state
All of these teams have been in and out of the kenpom top 40, and I find it really hard to believe that any of them have more nil money… I could be wrong, because again, I really don’t know
Fair point and while I don't know either, I'd be pretty sure SMU does given not only what they were doing to get the death penalty in the 80s but that they just ponied up enough money to cover not receiving a single dollar of ACC TV revenue for 10 years just to get in the conference! Sure that was all about football but with that much money sloshing around, it's hard to imagine someone didn't drop some of it in the men's baseball bucket.
Purdue is a bit of an unfair comparison given that the national player of the year decided to stick around another year - does anyone believe that without Eady they'd be anywhere near the top 40?
Purdue has some other good players, but maybe an unfair comparison… they’ve been better prior to Edey though too haven’t they? Again, my memory isn’t that good 😌
Not to turn this into The Boiler Room or whatever they call their site LOL but I was basing that on how bad their guard play has been in B1G tournament/NCAA losses in the Eady era - which spans the NIL/portal era... They had a really good group before that in the "old days" (2016-19) they got close and fell short as a low seed but had a season like ours this season the year before he got there that got cut short by COVID (500-ish overall and losing record in tne conference) but no doubt Painter is a good coach.
I'd like to hear Dmitri's take on the other schools, but UCLA is well known to have one of the most dysfunctional and inept NIL collectives in the country. NIL is now infinitely more important than recruiting. Just like in the pros where the best players are going to follow the money and not necessarily go play for a good coach, so too are the college players. It would be foolish for them not to.
I do think it's very fun to play the one-year sample size game when you're comparing teams, it's always a great argument that does not show any problems whatsoever.
For fun, I went and looked back at the KenPom rankings for all the teams you listed last year. Purdue was obviously a top team while SDSU and Florida Atlantic had top 20 years and ultimately were able to parlay those into Final Four runs. As for everyone else:
BYU - 77
Wake Forest - 86
Dayton - 79
Colorado State - 110
New Mexico - 66
Utah State - 28 (this one was surprising to me, but they ended up a 10 seed with a first round exit so there may be some noise in their ranking)
SMU - 183
Nevada - 62
Boise State - 37
So what you're really getting here is a lot of teams that had a big one-year bounce up, but not much sustainable year-over-year success. A lot of that has to do with the new recruiting paradigm: these are the schools that are taking high 3 and low 4 star players, developing them into a winner after a few years, and then losing those talents to bigger schools with more money once they enter the transfer portal, thus starting the whole cycle over again. Ironically, UCLA and Cronin are undergoing something similar, having brought in a lot of developmental guys this last cycle, but they're getting pilloried for it because UCLA fans are so conditioned to having instant results.
Does this mean NIL is not a factor? Absolutely not. If anything, this is underlining that new shift: do you reasonably expect any of these teams to continue being at a top 40 level for the next 2-3 years? Outside of Purdue and SDSU, probably not, especially as good head coaches at these schools are not long for them (for example, look for Dusty May of FAU to get play at Southern Cal when they let go of Enfield after this season). Its why I'm unsure why you'd bring up these schools other than to try and score cheap points without any sort of introspection on why these things are happening.
Now, I do think UCLA's NIL situation in basketball is not as bad as some would have you believe - they're about a top 20 in the nation in terms of money - but they're also not the Top 5 outfit that Cronin and his staff hoped they would be when they went after recruits last cycle and found out they went to a gun fight with a water pistol. It's why we saw the shift in recruiting to international last cycle - they went in on a bunch of the top guys but didn't have the money and it was too late to pivot. It's also why we're seeing another pivot with this cycle - they've only brought in one high school recruit with the idea they will go heavy in the portal to supplement what they've brought in already. I think that's probably the path forward for a UCLA going forward, bringing in a few developmental guys each cycle while bringing in more transfer products with your hopefully-increased NIL pool.
The one we're on right now? I think it's a necessary reset to the last three years of chasing a title with the (almost) exact same group of guys, which is not something that happens all that often. UCLA made a Final Four and lost no one from that squad, the next year they only really lost Juzang (and Peyton Watson but he was not a major contributor) and then ran it back one final time. They lost so many major contributors that a reset of some kind was bound to happen.
I do think UCLA is on the path back to that top tier, but that doesn't mean the disappointment you feel in this moment is not valid. I just think everyone bought into the hype that some places were spinning about this team. Somehow, I was actually close with my preseason notes, but they were very much on the low end of expectations and even they look like they'll miss on the offensive side (where I just asked for a top-75 offense, though the defense is holding up its end). I go back to what I put in that season preview, and it still holds true today:
"There’s a lot of talent, but a lot of it is new to the college game and each other. There are going to be plenty of lapses on defense, and moments where the offense doesn’t click. There will be more turnovers, there will be more fouls, and there will be more shots of Cronin yelling on the sidelines. The veteran Cronin players on this team are mostly sophomores. UCLA fans who have enjoyed the past few years are going to have to readjust their viewpoint to allow for growing pains."
In regards to the recruiting paradigm you mentioned, which talents have been lost to bigger schools over the last 3 years? I can’t think of a single transfer player that was an instant star at a power 5 school. Because of this, I disagree with this theory that non power 5 players are developing into stars that transfer to other schools for money. It’s definitely not common that all these players are being lost from small programs due to money. Again, find me some transfers that changed their new team into a title contender all by themselves… it’s not what’s happening today. It’s why saying that ucla can’t get any transfers because they don’t have money and that’s why they are no good is bogus
UCLA IS going through a similar cycle. They are getting pilloried for it because ucla was once a blue blood school and we are now comparing ucla to fau and sdsu. UCLA hasn’t had any results let alone instant results in 30 years. So no, it’s not because us fans expect instant results. We expect CONSISTENT results as all blue blood schools do. UCLA isn’t a blue blood anymore, so yeah, I’m sorry that my expectations don’t meet those of yours.
I didn’t bring these schools up to score cheap points. I brought them up because these are the best schools to compare ucla to these days. They are the most comparable schools at this point. It’s not a cheap shot, it’s a reality, ucla is not a blue blood anymore.
What recruits did ucla miss out on this year that changed the school they went to? Crickets… Caleb love? I’m honestly not sure what transfers were going to transform this team into a title contender. This team is so bad, one player wasn’t going to make the difference.
UCLA didn’t bring in just a few developmental players. Dylan Andrews, lazar, Mclendon, bona, nwuba… all experienced rotational players.
Even with all of that, you said yourself that ucla is a top 20 nil program. Why do you think their recruiting is so awful? It’s getting worse, even if it’s all the nil fault.
What’s it going to take for you to admit that cronin is bad for ucla? Here’s another bold prediction for you… ucla will be worse off then when cronin started by the time he is gone. He’s going to leave the cupboard completely bare. At least he had a set of players to work with when he arrived. There isn’t going to be anything left by the time he destroys the program.
Cronin is a blue collar coach who came to a white collar school. He’s trying to make it a blue collar program and it’s just not going to work… again, by the time the dust settles, I think you’ll realize cronin really was never that good of a coach. He got lucky with the prior coaches set of players and he’s going to settle in where he belongs… as a mediocre coach at a mediocre program. I just hope that next year is his last so we can find out sooner that I’m right
Cam Spencer is a guy UCLA went hard after that instead went to UConn and is one of their best players and a reason they are looking to repeat as national champions. Hunter Dickinson is getting NPOY buzz after transferring from Michigan to Kansas. Harrison Ingram went from Stanford to UNC and is doing well for a top team. Caleb Love is Arizona's best player after transferring from UNC. Like, this is not a hard thing to grasp but as we've established you don't actually watch college basketball so you wouldn't know.
And I guess I need to remind everyone that UCLA lost five of their top six contributors from a team that finished #3 in KenPom last year. That level of turnover is unheard of, and yet the fact that UCLA was in that position is never something people seem to give him credit for.
I'm not going to address the rest of your ramblings because, frankly, I don't have the time or patience to sit down and explain how the world works to someone who is unwilling to consider a worldview outside of their own.
This thread branch has ended, but I want to thank you for always taking the time and consideration to address our questions. This was a very reflective, factual answer.
However.
It didn't answer Baskets' question of talent making an impact transferring from smaller programs to larger programs.
I hope CMC can identify them and bring them on board.
I think you addressed it. You think another 3 star recruit and a transfer from Utah or someone similar next year will get this program all turned around and in tip top shape. I do think it’s funny that you disparage me for having an opinion that differs from yours. At least you put some thought into your answer. I still think you’re wrong. My opinion will take sometime to prove. I won’t do any more name calling, but I reserve the right for I told you so for the rest of time once my predictions come true. I’ve been a cronin hater from the day he was hired. That won’t stop until he has left ucla
CMC has only one commit signed for '24, a 6'5" sg. Among offered are 2 c (a project and an unrated international) who have shown no interest. (Anyone know who the prospect UCLA was hosting this weekend?) Vide and Fibleuil, who were projected one-and-done by the UCLA hype machine, will need tremendous development over the summer, or CMC will have to roll the dice with anybodies and nobodies in the portal to fill the roster. Next year, indeed.
I had a dose of false hopium or fools gold before the game last eve as the Dux and Wazzu both had lost and that opened up the 2 spot for UCLA in the standings. But I was also wise enough to acknowledge you Waiting4Ever knowing that if you saw my comment, you would likely transport me back to reality 🤣
Yep, I had cautioned before that "hopium" was very powerful and addicting. It made me puke after witnessing last night's truly awful performance at Pauley... :-(
UCLA may have to redo the postage stamp to show Coach Wooden frowning. This season's team is so much worse than Coach Cronin's Year-1 team.
yes. It's our roster. A direct result of dysfunction at the Men of Westwood. Someone commented here about a week or two ago after the Foster hire that they are a big donor and they received their first ever call from the Men of Westwood after the Foster hire.
Evan, you are so correct. How can anyone compare Enfield to Coach C? Remember, SC was ranked 21 in preseason polls and had a top ten ranking in recruiting. Where are they now? Can you imagine what Coach C could have done with the freshmen at SC? I dig coach C and will take him over any coach in Division 1. He is doing an incredible job given what he has to work with.
Anyone else think this season is somewhat comparable to one of howlands final years? Specifically his last with Muhammad who was a top 5 recruit that year right? Howland was a sloooooow tempo defense first coach who lost his way and stopped being able to get recruits that met his style. In his final years he tried to change his style and recruited Muhammad but had no idea how to use him. He got a bunch of circles that he tried to jam into square pegs… he eventually was let go. This season reminds me of howlands in that he recruited a bunch of players that don’t play well in his system
My memory has clearly lost me… that was howlands last year though right? Did he get canned mid season? I remember being so frustrated that season watching games
This is an objectively bad take. Howland's last roster at UCLA had 7 nba players. SEVEN. And THREE first round picks in the freshman class alone. And he couldn't do anything with it.
An aspect of NIL that hasn't been examined is its effect on player attitude. How often have we seen a professional athlete sign a big contract only for their game to tank the following year? College players now have an I -got-mine attitude knowing their cushy apartment, sweet wheels and deep expense account are secure, and not jeopardized by performance nor minutes earned. If professional athletes can be fined for their behavior and poor play then why can't paid professional collegiate athletes be fined for the same? The entire system is trashing college athletics.
💯agree and I also think NIL has the potential to create a lot of problems among the haves and have nots on the team. NIL is one big mess but greed and ego seem to reign supreme in big time college sports.
NIL also makes it imperative to recruit great character kids that have D.R.E. DNA built in. Take JJJ or Tyger, for example. Both had NIL deals but their strong character overcame a lot of the pitfalls.
Finally, I do think it's vital for coaches to develop the skills to effectively manage the division that NIL can create on a team.
But honestly, can you blame the players? The bottom line is that for a lot of these kids, the sport of basketball is their livelihood. Not just for the kids who are going to play in the NBA anymore. They have a limited earning potential -- some just 4 years -- and they have an obligation to their futures to maximize it while they can. You can't blame them, but you can blame the NCAA and the system for screwing this up.
but Cronin is not the only good coach out there. There's lot of good college coaches. Why not go to a school where you can be both developed and paid a lot of money? And it's even more important for the kids who are not going to play int he NBA, because this NIL stuff could be the entirety of their lifetime earnings from basketball.
This is exactly correct. It's also essentially a 1 year contract and they know teams are going to be offering even more money year 2. There's no commitment to a school.
With a little perspective the morning after Bona foul trouble + bad shooting night from every guard is always going to = inefficiency and loss for this roster. What worked to create much more efficient offense and scores hovering around 70 during the win streak and loss to zona was playing through Bona in the post, inside-out, with him taking the single team on and passing out of the double to guards who were shooting well from long mid-range or 3 or opening the lane for drives into the space the doubleteam created. It's not a coincidence that our 15-1 run happened after Iwuchukwu and Morgan got into foul trouble and we effectively returned to that set. But Bona's tendency to foul - which he still can't seem to overcome after nearly 2 years - really interrupted being able to play that way, since Mara isn't a strong post presence or good passer from down low - combine that with all 4 guards having a horrible shooting night at the same time (and not making up for it on the defensive end either) and you get that shitshow of a second half. The roster construction is on the coaching staff absolutely but now that we're here I'm not sure what Mick could have done to fix it last night the way we were playing on that night...
At it's best/maximizing what it can do well, we can complete with any other Pac12 team even without anyone likely to make either the 1st or 2nd all conference team... I don't think we can do that 4 times in 4 nights and I hope that isn't the task we set ourselves up for.
win out to get a buy most likely. Then maybe get hot and win the conf tourney. Not out of the question because the pac 12 is not very strong. But still very difficult with this inconsistent roster.
Like everybody here, I am extremely dissapointed with our teams performance this year. But I am more disappointed on how fans here have so quickly turned on Cronin. Yes, he does not have the talent to be a winning team this year under his system and that was on him. But looking back over his time at UCLA, 99-36 record his first four years, Sweet 16 or further 21, 22, 23--one of only four college programs to do that--and a final four in 2021. Not too shabby but now he is dog shit?
his trajectory is fine. Not sure what people expected when he lost every key piece from last year's time except Bona. You cannot expect to just replace that kind of talent with one recruiting class.
Don't be discouraged by the half a dozen folks who have turned on Cronin. It's the same crowd who will be ready to give Foster a lifetime contract if he wins his first 3 games. The highs and lows are intense with this group. There is no perspective. Cronin is widely considered an elite coach. Not sure what these people expected when he lost 4/5 of his starting 5. This was ALWAYS going to be a rebuilding year.
His trajectory is fine. He had a bad season--so did Ky two years ago and UNC not making the NCAA Tournament. Does he have flaws, sure, what coach does not? This reminds me of Jim Harrick. In the 1992-1993 and 1993-1994 seasons he underperformed in the Pac 10 conference. By 1994, the "Fans" were howling that Harrick "did not know how to coach". In 1994, I remember him losing in the round of 64 and it was thought he was gone. Then in 1995, when he won the National Championship, I remember him saying at the press conference something like "you still think I can not coach?"
As a current student, it is weird to see the comment sections here and all the Mick hate. The guy is a hero on campus. He is loved by the students including his players. And I mean loved. I transferred from Alabama and it's not an exageration to say that he is loved by basketball standards (as much as a bball coach could be loved) like Saban was. on campus. We just are not very good this year. With so many great problems it's hard to hit it out of the park every year. I have every confidence that Mick will have this program back in the Final 4 before too long.
I do not hate Cronin. I think he has some weaknesses and I do not agree with his actions at times, There is nothing wrong with expressing opinions in this community that may not entirely embrace CMC. This community has a wide range of beliefs and that is what creates dialogue and learning from others.
Also, you should have seen the negative reactions to the hiring of DeShaun Foster - it seemed that I was only one of a handful who embraced this hiring. And look how many great things he has already done for our Football program, and the widespread student, alumni and donor support and excitement he has brought back.
Hate is a strong word and I don't think even Baskets truly hates Cronin - he just has very strong opinions about UCLA basketball and how the team is being coached.
I for one, never used the term "hate". All coaches have weaknesses. Even the greatest of all time, "Coach", had a weakness regardiing over looking recruiting and some boosters' support which I personally witnessed. My comment is more along the lines that if you look at the team's performance the last four years, it has been outstanding and may well have won the NCAA title last year but for two key starters being injured. Cronin did not turn into a a poor coach over night. No question, a disappointing season but losing four of five starters along with a poor recruiting (yes, Cronin must accept blame for that) is hard to overcome in the short run.
OT: Thoughts on our new OC and assistant head coach, Eric Bieniemy? Was a rising star until he took the coaching spot with the Commanders which had meagre players to work with. Returning to the college ranks is a chance for him to regain his mojo and use his experience to help Foster.
I honestly don't know how Cronin and his staff evaluate recuits but it seems like there are some real issues with discerning who will flourish in CMC's coaching style. His style worked with high character super hard working players like JJJ, Tyger, Singleton and Clark. It's not working with the personalities and work ethic or lack thereof with this group.
Also, Cronin needs to focus on offense as much as he does on defense and perhaps he needs an assistant who will develop a more high scoring, fast break offense with excellent passing skills, footwork and vision.
Re: EB as OC...
I think it's a great hire for many reasons: great authentic recruiter, coached teams who won superbowls, NFL offense, has amazing connections in UCLA's backyard and nationally, demands discipline and respect, gregarious personality, and is loved by hardworking dedicated players.
The downside to EB is that I don't think he will stay long so it may be hard to convince recruits that he will be there in the long run. I think he will probably jump back to the NFL after 2 years - I hope I am wrong.
Cronin will never be an offensive minded genius. His only offense comes from players that can play iso basketball. His teams will never be fast paced… period. Fast pace means turnovers and mistakes which aren’t allowed by cronin
Fast pace means not winning championships. I can't remember the exact state, but I believe it is that no team in the last 20 years that won the title was top 40 in tempo.
Ok, but the eye test will show that carolina is clearly a fast paced team. They’re definitely faster than ucla and they’ve won multiple championships in the last 20 years. You’re the stats guy and even you must have thought of this before posting
I really think you are comparing seasoned players with freshman playing lots of minutes. Were those players as impressive as freshman? Did they have the same responsibilities that these freshman have had to take on?
Clark played 9 mpg as a freshman. Tyger redshirted his first year due to injury. Singleton averaged 4.5 points and 1.5 rebound in 19 mpg over his first 2 years.
You can look at this extremely young team and see poor work ethic, or you see freshman thrust into roles that freshman aren't normally put in. If you like 3 and 4 year players who are gonna improve through there time here, you'll probably like a lot of this group in a couple years because I'll bet a bunch of them will still be here.
I think you guys are also discounting how much veteran experience this team does have. Yes, there are lots of freshman with inexperience. Yes ucla lost 4 of 5 starters.
UCLA also returns their starting 5 star center, a junior transfer who was praised as a good get preseason, a sophomore point guard, a third year player who red shirted his first year due to injury, and a fifth year super senior.
Nwuba by the way is a clear case of non development. The fact that Mara is averaging more minutes per game than nwuba is just sad. Nwuba is playing less minutes per game this year on a much worse team. Coaching problem? Or is nwuba just getting worse? He’s certainly shown that he can play quality basketball against teams like Gonzaga… but whatever, we’re only looking at freshman failures because cronin can do no wrong
This difference between Cronin and Foster is that Cronin has proven himself a good coach. Foster is a great Bruin, but it is extremely rare for a head coach to be successful without having been a good coordinator. If UCLA wins 3 games next year, which is well within the realm of possibility, and probably likely, will there still be excitement.
Now that the season is officially over, let’s clear the air here. I don’t “hate” anybody that I’ve never met, but I will call myself a “cronin hater”. I’ve never supported him and always thought he was a bad hire for ucla.
His win loss percentage at ucla is good. He’s done so with half a team that he didn’t recruit. He’s also got better players than he ever had at Cincinnati, and he’s playing in the pac-12 which has been poor compared to other power 5 conferences. He’s won one conference title and has yet to win the conference tournament. Prior to coming to ucla he coached for 13 years at Cincinnati. The majority of his “success” didn’t start until Cincinnati moved to lower tiered American athletic conference. His win loss percentage at Cincinnati there was .668. He made it to the sweet 16 one time and was consistently losing in the tournament earlier than expected.
Cronin is a blue collar coach. His biggest success stories are from hard working players that are not traditionally known for scoring lots of points. He’s not had glowing success with his 5 star players.
Last season was the most success cronin has ever had at any program. He had a championship caliber season. I think that season is an outlier that he won’t repeat again anywhere. This season is more typical of what cronin is capable of in the long run. I don’t think ucla should be having “rebuild years” that last 2-3 years. UConn for example just won a national championship and they are back in the top 5 this year.
Cronin is a bad recruiter. Maybe it is the nil fault, but he’s just not that good. This year is the norm. Players are committing to programs 1-2 years prior to starting school… but not to ucla. UCLA hopes for magical transfers and a month before season signees from oversees. We will have to wait until July again it seems to find out what next years surprise will be.
I’m not writing this to the Evan’s, army’s, and Dimitri’s of the world. Your rose colored glasses are so enamored with cronin that you can’t see his faults for what they are… the final 4 tournament was a fluke! UCLA had a poor season and snuck into the big dance. It was a fun magical run, but the rest of the season was hard to watch. You can try to tear me down, but time is on my side and ucla is heading in the wrong direction. I have never supported cronin and I never will. I put my money where my mouth is and am ready for when he is gone. Cronin is a mediocre coach, he is not elite. Elite coaches are headed for the hall of fame because they are consistently good… Cronin has not proven that he is. The move to a new conference is going to make this worse. I’m just trying to reveal what I’ve been saying all along in hopes that others can see the writing on the wall… before it’s too late. The program is currently in the dumps, next season is going to be the match that lights the dump on fire. When bona and nwuba are gone who will save this program? A magical transfer? No, there’s nothing in the cupboard for next year and you’ve already stated that ucla can’t compete with the Yankees… so let’s try something new. Let’s bring in a coach that’s exciting, a coach that entertains, a coach that’s less of a drill Sargent… please before it’s too late. We’ve been trying something new for the last 30 years. For those willing to hold onto hope, best of luck. Until then, I’ll be here to try and convince the masses that cronin will revert to his mean… and his mean at Cincinnati in the big east was… mediocre. He’s just that and nothing more. Last season was a trick, the real cronin that I knew is here this season. With all of the players that he recruited in a program that he built. Open your eyes, or don’t, it will be much easier to see next season in their new conference when they have another wild roller coaster ride and finish around .500
It saddens me to say it, but I was actually the least sad and disappointed I’ve been in watching ucla lose to usc. I actually expected it. As much as it pains me to say it, I’ll be cheering against cronin until he is gone. I’ll always be sad when ucla loses, but the quicker the masses realize cronin isn’t a good coach, the better. I’ll be hoping for more cronin mediocrity next year. It’s what he is… and the quicker everyone else realizes it, the quicker we get to move on
All of your statements are correct. And I agree that my opinion won’t change with a championship… but I don’t expect Cronin will ever win a college championship anywhere, you do
it would be one thing if you said if cronin wins a national championship, i'll admit i was wrong. But you said, "my opinion won’t change with a championship." You are a f***ing moron.
Cronin made it past the sweet 16 with ucla and created a championship caliber team last year. You know the last coach ucla had with a championship caliber season? Steve Alford did it one time with ball, anigbogu, leaf, etc… and those were ALL FRESHMAN that he recruited. Fast forward to ucla this year… also an all freshman team, just with much different results… ironically, ball don’t lie, pun intended
Yes, because clearly that teams' leading rebounder, Junior Thomas Welsh, 2nd leading scorer, Senior Bryce Alford, and double-digit per game scorers Senior Isaac Hamilton (started every game) and Sophomore who started every game as a freshman & future pro Aaron Holiday (26 mins/game off the bench) had NOTHING to do with the one, singular success of Alfor that season - it was all Lonzo, Leaf, and Ike (who played 13 mins/game and never started once). Ball don't lie indeed - unless its LeVar selling shoes! I guess your memory really is failing...
My point was more that the freshman that Alford recruited that year were instant impact players. Cronin doesn’t seem to get that instant impact from his freshman guys…. Certainly not this year. But you’re not wrong, that team was stacked. And so was last years championship caliber team
it's like you ignored 90% of this thread. John Wooden or Coach K themselves would not be getting instant impact freshmen with the state of NIL. It's so bad that Cronin has made seven offers TOTAL to high school seniors for next season. It's actually very similar to when Cronin recruited Jaime Jaquez at Cincinnati. He said he knew he had no shot because of what he had to offer, but it was worth a call because it was Jaime. Do you are expect 18 year old kids, most of whom (almost all of whom?) do not come from wealthy backgrounds, to turn down half a million dollars cash because it is some special honor to wear the four letters.
Ok, I’ve done enough damage for at least a month. It’s been quite the bender eh? I have one last little game to play. I wanted to play a game. Let’s just say for kicks that you’re an 18 year old 5 star recruit and have offers from the below programs. If you had to rank them by where you’re going what would you choose. You can even include possible nil monies in your decision:
UCLA
Arizona
Houston
Connecticut
Duke
North Carolina
Marquette
Kansas
Kentucky
Gonzaga
Wisconsin
Villanova
I’ll add one caveat… if you’re ballsy enough to put ucla at the top of your list and show everyone that is where you’d go, then I’ll do my best to never reply to any of your comments ever again!
That’s a good question… I don’t really understand how wide the disparity truly is, so I’m not even going to guess. Somebody mentioned a few hundred thousand. I’d be really curious what Caleb love got to go to Arizona. If I’m 18 and already on the west coast, I’m taking a hard look at Arizona. The only sports program in town, tons of donor money, a raucous college town, a packed arena for every home game, a young coach that doesn’t seem to do a lot of discipline (one of the reasons love went there was probably to have a really long leash or none at all), dedicated fans, no scholastic requirements… but yeah, he must have been handed a lot of cash to come play there
word is caleb love got over 500k. and he's not close to top NIL guy. If I'm 18 and someone is offering me $500k up front to play a year of basketball, i'll go play for a JC in Mexico City.
But hold on, there's still 4 more regular season games, plus the conference tournament to provide entertainment. The supply is running low, though--got any more "hopium"?
Honestly this one is my bad. Girlfriend bought us hockey tickets for Christmas (she's from Minnesota) and I hadn't yet trained her in looking at schedules. We'll watch film and work to get better going forward.
Cronin's press conference is worth watching. These kids are lucky to have a teacher like him. I'm pretty down on this team, but this guy is going to have the team ready for the pac 12 tourney. He's determined to get this team into the ncaa tourney, but this roster is going to make it tough.
Guess we'll see how ready his team will be for the Pac-12 tourney, as he has said before that the players lacked aptitude to learn and apply, and that 99% of freshmen don't get better as the year goes on... :-)
Waiting4Ever, given all we have seen from Cronin over the last several years...
1) Do you think he is the right coach for the environment of present day college ball with regard to: recruiting, NIL, style of play and style of coaching?
2) Do you think that if he had recruited the 'fighters' he refers to, he is capable of winning a championship with his defense first, offense in last place, trademark?
Ms. Tamara, I presume what you're actually asking for is my opinion of Mick Cronin as head coach at UCLA. Based on his reputation as a Tier-1 coach (he's not at Elite level yet) and all of the great accomplishments since his hiring, I believe the two-time Pac-12 Coach of the Year has certainly earned the right to continue working on current player development and recruiting and try to get the team back on the winning track (next season). We haven't seen it consistently this year, but his Bruin teams have usually been highly competitive, due to the tenacity and resilience that he instills (perservering despite injuries, winning on the road, hanging tough against good teams, etc.). And I'm fine with his style of coaching too. At least he's not verbally and physically abusive like Gregg Marshall was at Wichita State, for example.
If Coach Cronin is able to recruit players similar to the ones he inherited and recruited in his first 2 years at UCLA, then sure, I think he's capable of eventually winning a championship with a great defense that can hold opponents in check. Not sure that his offense is in "last place" or considered lower priority, but it seems he prefers the slow-paced, grind-it-out, one-on-one, iso-oriented type of attack that can be boring or painful to watch when shots aren't falling. I'm not a real fan of that style of offense, so if he has players that can win with it, then that's great. Note that it's really, really hard to reach the Final Four, let alone win it all. Regarding the coaches mentioned in the other post, even Coach Few didn't reach the Final Four until his 18th season at Gonzaga and got there a 2nd time in his 22nd season. Coaches Enfield, Miller, and Lloyd so far have zero Final Fours, while Coach Cronin got to the Final Four in only his 2nd year at UCLA. (Sorry, I don't know who Alford is.) This season was expected to be a rebuilding year because of the roster turnover, but it has certainly been filled with lots of frustration, hasn't it? Anyway, I think UCLA still has a good coach that needs continued support (including NIL funding) in order to succeed. That's my $0.02 worth, just for you!
Thank you dear friend. I appreciate your thoughtful perspective and wisdom, as always! 💙💛
Thanks, but I don't deserve kudos for having any wisdom--I'm still recovering from the last dose of "hopium"... :-(
🤣 Me too... rollercoaster to say the least.
Have to also add that expressing joy when the Bruins are doing well, venting when things go bad, and reading the wide range of opinions, reactions, and predictions (both extremes and everything in between) on The Mighty Bruin have been entertaining and thought provoking. No "hopium" required. Stay passionate--Go Bruins!
Not sure how many of us saw the article in yesterday's LA Times full of quotes from recent former players (Singleton, Jaylen Clark, Chris Smith, Myles Johnson) all praising Mick's intensity and saying they learned from him along with a quote from Sebastian Mack "but, I mean, the stuff he does say usually ends up happening"... I'm not so certain that the players are as bothered as we can be outside the locker room watching his "style".
Clearly truly effective coaching is inspiring players to reach their best and implement the team's vision... But players aren't avatars that a coach can control with a joystick! I mean when you call a timeout to instruct your players "under no circumstances allow this one guy to dribble up the court" and then those same players watch, wave, and weakly sorta reach out as that one guy does exactly that - I'm sorry, that's also on the players. There's a reason no one has gone unbeaten since 1976, well before 1-and-done, portals, and G-League/Euro pathways... players at this age and time of development aren't consistent.
Excellent L.A. Times article--most players at that age haven't accumulated enough experience and maturity yet, so Coach Cronin's tough coaching style is just what they need to help them deal with adversity on the court and also to better prepare them to overcome challenges they face after they leave UCLA.
From the post-game interviews:
“We had three days of practice that have been sporadic, but last week, we had our best three practices of the year.”
--U$C Coach Enfield
“It’s a simple game. The team that plays harder usually wins. They played much harder than us. They were more physical, they had humility, they came in here looking for redemption. We had no humility. Show me somebody that’s not humble and I’ll show you somebody getting ready to get humbled. We had our worst week of practice of the season. I failed miserably to get my team ready for the fight that was coming today and I’m thoroughly embarrassed. And I apologize to the people wearing the four letters. Yes, we really struggled making the open shots, but that has nothing to do with all the stuff I talked about. The team that wins the fight usually wins the game. And they won the fight in every way. We were awful.”
--UCLA Coach Cronin
No wonder the Bruins lost... :-(
That's what inconsistent teams do. And it's why inconsistent teams end up with .500 records. One week they look like a tournament team, the next week a last place team. We got blown out by a weak Utah team, then almost beat top 10 Arizona. We pulled out some tough games during a misleading 6 game win streak, then lost to an awful USC team. Who knows what will show up against Arizona this week.
I don't think Coach Cronin really knows what he's going to get out this team either...
[P.S.--The Mildcats visit Pauley next week Thursday.]
yeah. watch us beat Arizona and then go lose to ASU by 20. would make a lot of sense.
That's what Wazoo did last week!
TMB crowd disparages Enfield's coaching acumen with great glee, while Andy has a winning record against CMC and also signs the recruits that Cronin offers.
Oh, and CMC has a losing record against Sean/Lloyd and Few, too.
Invariably with end of game debacles.
Excuse me, but Enfield has been the USC coach for 11 years. He has 5 tournament appearances and only got out of the first round twice. That's pathetic. It's not even mediocre. Steve Alford is objectively a better coach. Tim Floyd had a significantly better track record at USC and got canned. Not sure why they keep him around, but I'm glad they do.
CMC is losing to an objectively worse coach than Steve Alford.
with objectively worse players. also, how many Final 4's did Alford go you to?
That sure was one heck of a crappy home performance by the Bruins--and against a pretty lousy U$C team to boot. At least Coach Cronin is also implicating himself for his team's lack of preparedness and competitiveness. Too bad he can't shoot baskets for them too! Looks like the entire roster requires another season (or more) to mature and reach their full potential. If this team somehow gets hot and wins the Pac-12 championship this season to earn an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, the accomplishment would be comparable to reaching the Final Four...
Anyway, about the only positive thing that happened for UCLA on Saturday was the release of Coach Wooden's limited-edition "Forever" stamps from the USPS, which I ordered online:
https://store.usps.com/store/results?Ntt=john+wooden
What an amazing legend. Go Bruins!
The lackluster effort and lousy performance against U$C in front of a sellout crowd at Pauley Pavilion was awful, but I didn't expect it would trigger any discussion regarding Coach Cronin as head coach at UCLA, which I believe is unwarranted. He's a proven winner and has transformed the program to be highly competitive. Obviously, his roster reload didn't result in a consistently well-performing team this season (so far), but the pre-season expectation of a 3rd-place finish in the final year of the Pac-12 Conference is close to being met.
In fairness, he's really only like 4 or 5 people -- who have been exposed by Dmitri as not really knowing basketball -- who are disgruntled. These people live off the highs and lows and have very short memories. These folks will call for a lifetime contract for Foster if he starts 4-0, but want him fired a month later if he loses 4 straight.
Mick is a budding elite coach. There are not many coaches who have run out a title contender three years in a row. Hell, there are not many coaches who have run out a title contender even once without the help of a dominant one and done. Given the roster turnover, UCLA's record and performance this season was about as predictable as the Warriors missing the playoffs the year Curry got hurt.
CBH had a 3 year run for title contention. Is he then elite? How is he regarded? There's much "he lost his way" attribution, and that he was kept 2 years too long, but oh those years of Camelot!
I thought Coach Howland's Bruins ran into some bad luck in having to face a team (Florida) that was just better than everybody else at the time. It's also unfortunate that he eventually succumbed to external pressure to change things up and allowing the team discipline to deteriorate as a result.
Anyway, not sure how he'll fare after this season is over, but here's a few subjective pre-season evaluations that seem pretty consistent in rating Coach Cronin among the top-15 or so, which is pretty good considering how the previous AD bungled past head coach searching efforts::
https://theathletic.com/4982079/2023/10/25/college-basketball-coaching-tiers-self-hurley-calipari-pitino/
https://bustingbrackets.com/2023/10/02/ncaa-basketball-ranking-362-d-head-coaches-2023-24-season/24/
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-coaching-rankings-the-top-25-and-1-coaches-as-the-2023-24-season-gets-underway/
And at #16, this could be a perfect pose for a statue (LOL!):
https://247sports.com/longformarticle/top-25-college-basketball-coaches-ahead-of-2022-23-season-187892924/#1898618
Go West young man!
As he proclaims with that classic angry face... :-)
the fact that he fell into our lap is remarkable. We struck out on several coaches before he was even on the radar.
If only he'd of let Russ guard Rose in the 08 semi... :-(
The last few games appear to be a bit of smoke as this team has reverted to what all thought they were truly capable of.
I think cronin is going to wind up as howland 2.0. Not sure that he’s capable of replicating last season again with his recruiting capability starting to catch up to him.
Now that this season is over, can we start talking about next season yet? I’m really curious how next season will be any better. The attitude problems come when players disagree with the coach. Players butt heads when they disagree with the head coaches style. I would guess that mack is one of those players and find it hard to see how he’s turning it around at ucla with mick in charge. Mara is not a capable starter and won’t be for the next few years if he stays. He’s too much of a project as you’re trying to coach aggressiveness which isn’t that coach able. Some players have it and some don’t… Mara just doesn’t have it. Stef is the most streaky shooter on the team and can’t defend. Dylan is also dependent on his players making shots and when they don’t, his game is almost worthless…. Mclendon is not a starter either.
Who are you looking forward to next season? What gets you excited about this program? One more season to go! Looking forward to some change already
Well stated Baskets. The problems are many and some likely can't be seen directly by us, but the following issues seem glaring IMHO...
1) The coaching staff presently is woefully inept at vetting or evaluating players who are 'fighters' (not flagrant 2.0 ers) and who understand what it means to wear and represent the Four Letters. Youth is not an excuse. Character is character.
2) Cronin can't decide who he is: the public shamer of the players he recruited or the blame taker of the players he recruited and hence the outcome on the court.
3) Cronin not only loses to suc over and over but loses on last second shots over and over revealing poor end of game management. And thus, the repeating nightmares of Gonzaga, for example.
4) Cronin's offenses are invariably not high scoring and rely almost solely on defense which eventually proves costly. Offense and defense are both critical to winning championships and offense is not his trademark.
5) Kyle Smith at Wazzu has achieved a lot more with his players than Cronin. Enough said.
Re 4) O&D
Even Alfie with his ego understood his shortcomings, heard the disgruntled cries of Bruin faithful, and added a defensive "expert" to his staff, albeit in Bartow2.0. CMC is stubborn, set and absolutely will not change nor adapt.
And he really has no reason to. Alford was a mediocre coach on his best day, with actual shortcomings. Mick has a 15+ year track record of success. His program works. He took a 4th place team to the Final Four in his second season here. He followed that with two terrific seasons. Don't mess with success.
I agree that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and "don't mess with success." But we all can stand for improvement, and there is an entire dimension of play that lags.
right, but it's not the system. it's that the players have not yet developed offensively. Keep in mind, on Cronin's other UCLA teams, most of our starting 5 would barely be getting any playing time. These kids were thrust into action before they were ready. Color me not surprised that an offense build around Adem Bona is not a top 100 offense in the nation.
UCLA had a more efficient offense than defense in 2021 and 2022, and the #21 offense last year. You are basing an entire dimension lagging on one team that has struggled to shoot the ball this year. That is not a pattern.
Don't confuse me with facts!
we can't talk about next season without talking about NIL. Otherwise it's kind of like blaming an NBA coach for the GM's failure to sign any decent players. Coaches just don't have the same control of what players they bring in anymore.
But I think Mara is going to be a pretty good player by the time he is a junior or senior. Lazar would be a great rotation piece on a good roster, but that is not happening next season.
I don’t know about the nil… so let’s talk about it. Do the below programs have more nil money than ucla?
Purdue
San Diego state
BYU
Wake forest
Dayton
Colorado state
New Mexico
Florida Atlantic
Utah state
Smu
Nevada
Boise state
All of these teams have been in and out of the kenpom top 40, and I find it really hard to believe that any of them have more nil money… I could be wrong, because again, I really don’t know
Fair point and while I don't know either, I'd be pretty sure SMU does given not only what they were doing to get the death penalty in the 80s but that they just ponied up enough money to cover not receiving a single dollar of ACC TV revenue for 10 years just to get in the conference! Sure that was all about football but with that much money sloshing around, it's hard to imagine someone didn't drop some of it in the men's baseball bucket.
Purdue is a bit of an unfair comparison given that the national player of the year decided to stick around another year - does anyone believe that without Eady they'd be anywhere near the top 40?
Purdue has some other good players, but maybe an unfair comparison… they’ve been better prior to Edey though too haven’t they? Again, my memory isn’t that good 😌
Not to turn this into The Boiler Room or whatever they call their site LOL but I was basing that on how bad their guard play has been in B1G tournament/NCAA losses in the Eady era - which spans the NIL/portal era... They had a really good group before that in the "old days" (2016-19) they got close and fell short as a low seed but had a season like ours this season the year before he got there that got cut short by COVID (500-ish overall and losing record in tne conference) but no doubt Painter is a good coach.
We now return you to regular Bruins programming 😂
yep
The roster is just bad this year, Baskets.
Why is that, gibbs?
I'd like to hear Dmitri's take on the other schools, but UCLA is well known to have one of the most dysfunctional and inept NIL collectives in the country. NIL is now infinitely more important than recruiting. Just like in the pros where the best players are going to follow the money and not necessarily go play for a good coach, so too are the college players. It would be foolish for them not to.
I do think it's very fun to play the one-year sample size game when you're comparing teams, it's always a great argument that does not show any problems whatsoever.
For fun, I went and looked back at the KenPom rankings for all the teams you listed last year. Purdue was obviously a top team while SDSU and Florida Atlantic had top 20 years and ultimately were able to parlay those into Final Four runs. As for everyone else:
BYU - 77
Wake Forest - 86
Dayton - 79
Colorado State - 110
New Mexico - 66
Utah State - 28 (this one was surprising to me, but they ended up a 10 seed with a first round exit so there may be some noise in their ranking)
SMU - 183
Nevada - 62
Boise State - 37
So what you're really getting here is a lot of teams that had a big one-year bounce up, but not much sustainable year-over-year success. A lot of that has to do with the new recruiting paradigm: these are the schools that are taking high 3 and low 4 star players, developing them into a winner after a few years, and then losing those talents to bigger schools with more money once they enter the transfer portal, thus starting the whole cycle over again. Ironically, UCLA and Cronin are undergoing something similar, having brought in a lot of developmental guys this last cycle, but they're getting pilloried for it because UCLA fans are so conditioned to having instant results.
Does this mean NIL is not a factor? Absolutely not. If anything, this is underlining that new shift: do you reasonably expect any of these teams to continue being at a top 40 level for the next 2-3 years? Outside of Purdue and SDSU, probably not, especially as good head coaches at these schools are not long for them (for example, look for Dusty May of FAU to get play at Southern Cal when they let go of Enfield after this season). Its why I'm unsure why you'd bring up these schools other than to try and score cheap points without any sort of introspection on why these things are happening.
Now, I do think UCLA's NIL situation in basketball is not as bad as some would have you believe - they're about a top 20 in the nation in terms of money - but they're also not the Top 5 outfit that Cronin and his staff hoped they would be when they went after recruits last cycle and found out they went to a gun fight with a water pistol. It's why we saw the shift in recruiting to international last cycle - they went in on a bunch of the top guys but didn't have the money and it was too late to pivot. It's also why we're seeing another pivot with this cycle - they've only brought in one high school recruit with the idea they will go heavy in the portal to supplement what they've brought in already. I think that's probably the path forward for a UCLA going forward, bringing in a few developmental guys each cycle while bringing in more transfer products with your hopefully-increased NIL pool.
Is this a path to a consistently successful top tier program?
The one we're on right now? I think it's a necessary reset to the last three years of chasing a title with the (almost) exact same group of guys, which is not something that happens all that often. UCLA made a Final Four and lost no one from that squad, the next year they only really lost Juzang (and Peyton Watson but he was not a major contributor) and then ran it back one final time. They lost so many major contributors that a reset of some kind was bound to happen.
I do think UCLA is on the path back to that top tier, but that doesn't mean the disappointment you feel in this moment is not valid. I just think everyone bought into the hype that some places were spinning about this team. Somehow, I was actually close with my preseason notes, but they were very much on the low end of expectations and even they look like they'll miss on the offensive side (where I just asked for a top-75 offense, though the defense is holding up its end). I go back to what I put in that season preview, and it still holds true today:
"There’s a lot of talent, but a lot of it is new to the college game and each other. There are going to be plenty of lapses on defense, and moments where the offense doesn’t click. There will be more turnovers, there will be more fouls, and there will be more shots of Cronin yelling on the sidelines. The veteran Cronin players on this team are mostly sophomores. UCLA fans who have enjoyed the past few years are going to have to readjust their viewpoint to allow for growing pains."
What makes you think that ucla is on a path back to top tier?
In regards to the recruiting paradigm you mentioned, which talents have been lost to bigger schools over the last 3 years? I can’t think of a single transfer player that was an instant star at a power 5 school. Because of this, I disagree with this theory that non power 5 players are developing into stars that transfer to other schools for money. It’s definitely not common that all these players are being lost from small programs due to money. Again, find me some transfers that changed their new team into a title contender all by themselves… it’s not what’s happening today. It’s why saying that ucla can’t get any transfers because they don’t have money and that’s why they are no good is bogus
UCLA IS going through a similar cycle. They are getting pilloried for it because ucla was once a blue blood school and we are now comparing ucla to fau and sdsu. UCLA hasn’t had any results let alone instant results in 30 years. So no, it’s not because us fans expect instant results. We expect CONSISTENT results as all blue blood schools do. UCLA isn’t a blue blood anymore, so yeah, I’m sorry that my expectations don’t meet those of yours.
I didn’t bring these schools up to score cheap points. I brought them up because these are the best schools to compare ucla to these days. They are the most comparable schools at this point. It’s not a cheap shot, it’s a reality, ucla is not a blue blood anymore.
What recruits did ucla miss out on this year that changed the school they went to? Crickets… Caleb love? I’m honestly not sure what transfers were going to transform this team into a title contender. This team is so bad, one player wasn’t going to make the difference.
UCLA didn’t bring in just a few developmental players. Dylan Andrews, lazar, Mclendon, bona, nwuba… all experienced rotational players.
Even with all of that, you said yourself that ucla is a top 20 nil program. Why do you think their recruiting is so awful? It’s getting worse, even if it’s all the nil fault.
What’s it going to take for you to admit that cronin is bad for ucla? Here’s another bold prediction for you… ucla will be worse off then when cronin started by the time he is gone. He’s going to leave the cupboard completely bare. At least he had a set of players to work with when he arrived. There isn’t going to be anything left by the time he destroys the program.
Cronin is a blue collar coach who came to a white collar school. He’s trying to make it a blue collar program and it’s just not going to work… again, by the time the dust settles, I think you’ll realize cronin really was never that good of a coach. He got lucky with the prior coaches set of players and he’s going to settle in where he belongs… as a mediocre coach at a mediocre program. I just hope that next year is his last so we can find out sooner that I’m right
Cam Spencer is a guy UCLA went hard after that instead went to UConn and is one of their best players and a reason they are looking to repeat as national champions. Hunter Dickinson is getting NPOY buzz after transferring from Michigan to Kansas. Harrison Ingram went from Stanford to UNC and is doing well for a top team. Caleb Love is Arizona's best player after transferring from UNC. Like, this is not a hard thing to grasp but as we've established you don't actually watch college basketball so you wouldn't know.
And I guess I need to remind everyone that UCLA lost five of their top six contributors from a team that finished #3 in KenPom last year. That level of turnover is unheard of, and yet the fact that UCLA was in that position is never something people seem to give him credit for.
I'm not going to address the rest of your ramblings because, frankly, I don't have the time or patience to sit down and explain how the world works to someone who is unwilling to consider a worldview outside of their own.
This thread branch has ended, but I want to thank you for always taking the time and consideration to address our questions. This was a very reflective, factual answer.
However.
It didn't answer Baskets' question of talent making an impact transferring from smaller programs to larger programs.
I hope CMC can identify them and bring them on board.
I think you addressed it. You think another 3 star recruit and a transfer from Utah or someone similar next year will get this program all turned around and in tip top shape. I do think it’s funny that you disparage me for having an opinion that differs from yours. At least you put some thought into your answer. I still think you’re wrong. My opinion will take sometime to prove. I won’t do any more name calling, but I reserve the right for I told you so for the rest of time once my predictions come true. I’ve been a cronin hater from the day he was hired. That won’t stop until he has left ucla
that was a brutal take down
Laz!
CMC has only one commit signed for '24, a 6'5" sg. Among offered are 2 c (a project and an unrated international) who have shown no interest. (Anyone know who the prospect UCLA was hosting this weekend?) Vide and Fibleuil, who were projected one-and-done by the UCLA hype machine, will need tremendous development over the summer, or CMC will have to roll the dice with anybodies and nobodies in the portal to fill the roster. Next year, indeed.
Horry’s son
He signed as a walk on. He won't play.
the next Adria Gasol.
The Cronin haters are back!
Agreed, I am definitely a cronin hater.
there's only about 6 off you, but boy are you folks loud!
The supply of "hopium" has apparently dried up, and more folks are experiencing withdrawal symptoms (Cronin's disease). LOL!
I had a dose of false hopium or fools gold before the game last eve as the Dux and Wazzu both had lost and that opened up the 2 spot for UCLA in the standings. But I was also wise enough to acknowledge you Waiting4Ever knowing that if you saw my comment, you would likely transport me back to reality 🤣
Yep, I had cautioned before that "hopium" was very powerful and addicting. It made me puke after witnessing last night's truly awful performance at Pauley... :-(
UCLA may have to redo the postage stamp to show Coach Wooden frowning. This season's team is so much worse than Coach Cronin's Year-1 team.
I'm not a hater, but something clearly is amiss.
yes. It's our roster. A direct result of dysfunction at the Men of Westwood. Someone commented here about a week or two ago after the Foster hire that they are a big donor and they received their first ever call from the Men of Westwood after the Foster hire.
Evan, you are so correct. How can anyone compare Enfield to Coach C? Remember, SC was ranked 21 in preseason polls and had a top ten ranking in recruiting. Where are they now? Can you imagine what Coach C could have done with the freshmen at SC? I dig coach C and will take him over any coach in Division 1. He is doing an incredible job given what he has to work with.
exactly. He's got two draft picks in his starting 5, one of whom is probably a first rounder, and he's 11-16. It's Lavin-esque.
I imagine that if CMC had Andy's freshman, they would play suffocating defense and be unable to score.
Overused but so apropos. Some choose to believe their lying eyes.
This team can't shoot consistently. Their offense is terrible.
and our best players are probably gone
"When the ball goes in.... you become a much better coach.."
-- Mick Cronin, at halftime during last year's Sweet-16 game vs. Gonzaga
Anyone else think this season is somewhat comparable to one of howlands final years? Specifically his last with Muhammad who was a top 5 recruit that year right? Howland was a sloooooow tempo defense first coach who lost his way and stopped being able to get recruits that met his style. In his final years he tried to change his style and recruited Muhammad but had no idea how to use him. He got a bunch of circles that he tried to jam into square pegs… he eventually was let go. This season reminds me of howlands in that he recruited a bunch of players that don’t play well in his system
That team won 25 games and the conference title. LOL. This year's team doesn't compare. They're worse.
My memory has clearly lost me… that was howlands last year though right? Did he get canned mid season? I remember being so frustrated that season watching games
you were frustrated because he had 7 NBA players and he did nothing with it.
This is an objectively bad take. Howland's last roster at UCLA had 7 nba players. SEVEN. And THREE first round picks in the freshman class alone. And he couldn't do anything with it.
An aspect of NIL that hasn't been examined is its effect on player attitude. How often have we seen a professional athlete sign a big contract only for their game to tank the following year? College players now have an I -got-mine attitude knowing their cushy apartment, sweet wheels and deep expense account are secure, and not jeopardized by performance nor minutes earned. If professional athletes can be fined for their behavior and poor play then why can't paid professional collegiate athletes be fined for the same? The entire system is trashing college athletics.
💯agree and I also think NIL has the potential to create a lot of problems among the haves and have nots on the team. NIL is one big mess but greed and ego seem to reign supreme in big time college sports.
NIL also makes it imperative to recruit great character kids that have D.R.E. DNA built in. Take JJJ or Tyger, for example. Both had NIL deals but their strong character overcame a lot of the pitfalls.
Finally, I do think it's vital for coaches to develop the skills to effectively manage the division that NIL can create on a team.
The challenge of identifying talent, potential and character has been a constant.
What's different with the landscape now is NIL. Athletes want to know, "How much money can you offer?," not "How will I be developed and utilized?"
But honestly, can you blame the players? The bottom line is that for a lot of these kids, the sport of basketball is their livelihood. Not just for the kids who are going to play in the NBA anymore. They have a limited earning potential -- some just 4 years -- and they have an obligation to their futures to maximize it while they can. You can't blame them, but you can blame the NCAA and the system for screwing this up.
I would think that maximizing their futures would entail being developed by a good coach. I'm clearly too old for this world.
but Cronin is not the only good coach out there. There's lot of good college coaches. Why not go to a school where you can be both developed and paid a lot of money? And it's even more important for the kids who are not going to play int he NBA, because this NIL stuff could be the entirety of their lifetime earnings from basketball.
This is exactly correct. It's also essentially a 1 year contract and they know teams are going to be offering even more money year 2. There's no commitment to a school.
With a little perspective the morning after Bona foul trouble + bad shooting night from every guard is always going to = inefficiency and loss for this roster. What worked to create much more efficient offense and scores hovering around 70 during the win streak and loss to zona was playing through Bona in the post, inside-out, with him taking the single team on and passing out of the double to guards who were shooting well from long mid-range or 3 or opening the lane for drives into the space the doubleteam created. It's not a coincidence that our 15-1 run happened after Iwuchukwu and Morgan got into foul trouble and we effectively returned to that set. But Bona's tendency to foul - which he still can't seem to overcome after nearly 2 years - really interrupted being able to play that way, since Mara isn't a strong post presence or good passer from down low - combine that with all 4 guards having a horrible shooting night at the same time (and not making up for it on the defensive end either) and you get that shitshow of a second half. The roster construction is on the coaching staff absolutely but now that we're here I'm not sure what Mick could have done to fix it last night the way we were playing on that night...
At it's best/maximizing what it can do well, we can complete with any other Pac12 team even without anyone likely to make either the 1st or 2nd all conference team... I don't think we can do that 4 times in 4 nights and I hope that isn't the task we set ourselves up for.
They need to win some more games to get a bye. Probably need to win out.
win out to get a buy most likely. Then maybe get hot and win the conf tourney. Not out of the question because the pac 12 is not very strong. But still very difficult with this inconsistent roster.
Winning always cures everything and is proven to be much more effective than any amount of "hopium"... :-)
Good luck up in Washington, Go Bruins!
Like everybody here, I am extremely dissapointed with our teams performance this year. But I am more disappointed on how fans here have so quickly turned on Cronin. Yes, he does not have the talent to be a winning team this year under his system and that was on him. But looking back over his time at UCLA, 99-36 record his first four years, Sweet 16 or further 21, 22, 23--one of only four college programs to do that--and a final four in 2021. Not too shabby but now he is dog shit?
CMC's achievement and coaching chops are not being questioned. His trajectory given his weaknesses and the future environment is.
his trajectory is fine. Not sure what people expected when he lost every key piece from last year's time except Bona. You cannot expect to just replace that kind of talent with one recruiting class.
Don't be discouraged by the half a dozen folks who have turned on Cronin. It's the same crowd who will be ready to give Foster a lifetime contract if he wins his first 3 games. The highs and lows are intense with this group. There is no perspective. Cronin is widely considered an elite coach. Not sure what these people expected when he lost 4/5 of his starting 5. This was ALWAYS going to be a rebuilding year.
His trajectory is fine. He had a bad season--so did Ky two years ago and UNC not making the NCAA Tournament. Does he have flaws, sure, what coach does not? This reminds me of Jim Harrick. In the 1992-1993 and 1993-1994 seasons he underperformed in the Pac 10 conference. By 1994, the "Fans" were howling that Harrick "did not know how to coach". In 1994, I remember him losing in the round of 64 and it was thought he was gone. Then in 1995, when he won the National Championship, I remember him saying at the press conference something like "you still think I can not coach?"
As a current student, it is weird to see the comment sections here and all the Mick hate. The guy is a hero on campus. He is loved by the students including his players. And I mean loved. I transferred from Alabama and it's not an exageration to say that he is loved by basketball standards (as much as a bball coach could be loved) like Saban was. on campus. We just are not very good this year. With so many great problems it's hard to hit it out of the park every year. I have every confidence that Mick will have this program back in the Final 4 before too long.
I do not hate Cronin. I think he has some weaknesses and I do not agree with his actions at times, There is nothing wrong with expressing opinions in this community that may not entirely embrace CMC. This community has a wide range of beliefs and that is what creates dialogue and learning from others.
Also, you should have seen the negative reactions to the hiring of DeShaun Foster - it seemed that I was only one of a handful who embraced this hiring. And look how many great things he has already done for our Football program, and the widespread student, alumni and donor support and excitement he has brought back.
Hate is a strong word and I don't think even Baskets truly hates Cronin - he just has very strong opinions about UCLA basketball and how the team is being coached.
I for one, never used the term "hate". All coaches have weaknesses. Even the greatest of all time, "Coach", had a weakness regardiing over looking recruiting and some boosters' support which I personally witnessed. My comment is more along the lines that if you look at the team's performance the last four years, it has been outstanding and may well have won the NCAA title last year but for two key starters being injured. Cronin did not turn into a a poor coach over night. No question, a disappointing season but losing four of five starters along with a poor recruiting (yes, Cronin must accept blame for that) is hard to overcome in the short run.
OT: Thoughts on our new OC and assistant head coach, Eric Bieniemy? Was a rising star until he took the coaching spot with the Commanders which had meagre players to work with. Returning to the college ranks is a chance for him to regain his mojo and use his experience to help Foster.
All valuable points.
I honestly don't know how Cronin and his staff evaluate recuits but it seems like there are some real issues with discerning who will flourish in CMC's coaching style. His style worked with high character super hard working players like JJJ, Tyger, Singleton and Clark. It's not working with the personalities and work ethic or lack thereof with this group.
Also, Cronin needs to focus on offense as much as he does on defense and perhaps he needs an assistant who will develop a more high scoring, fast break offense with excellent passing skills, footwork and vision.
Re: EB as OC...
I think it's a great hire for many reasons: great authentic recruiter, coached teams who won superbowls, NFL offense, has amazing connections in UCLA's backyard and nationally, demands discipline and respect, gregarious personality, and is loved by hardworking dedicated players.
The downside to EB is that I don't think he will stay long so it may be hard to convince recruits that he will be there in the long run. I think he will probably jump back to the NFL after 2 years - I hope I am wrong.
Cronin will never be an offensive minded genius. His only offense comes from players that can play iso basketball. His teams will never be fast paced… period. Fast pace means turnovers and mistakes which aren’t allowed by cronin
Iso is his comfort bag for sure.
his teams are not fast paced by design. defense oriented game plans. hard to play tough d when you run a fast paced offense.
Fast pace means not winning championships. I can't remember the exact state, but I believe it is that no team in the last 20 years that won the title was top 40 in tempo.
Ok, but the eye test will show that carolina is clearly a fast paced team. They’re definitely faster than ucla and they’ve won multiple championships in the last 20 years. You’re the stats guy and even you must have thought of this before posting
I’m not asking for ucla to be a top 40 in tempo… I’m asking that they start by being a top 200 team
I really think you are comparing seasoned players with freshman playing lots of minutes. Were those players as impressive as freshman? Did they have the same responsibilities that these freshman have had to take on?
Clark played 9 mpg as a freshman. Tyger redshirted his first year due to injury. Singleton averaged 4.5 points and 1.5 rebound in 19 mpg over his first 2 years.
You can look at this extremely young team and see poor work ethic, or you see freshman thrust into roles that freshman aren't normally put in. If you like 3 and 4 year players who are gonna improve through there time here, you'll probably like a lot of this group in a couple years because I'll bet a bunch of them will still be here.
I think you guys are also discounting how much veteran experience this team does have. Yes, there are lots of freshman with inexperience. Yes ucla lost 4 of 5 starters.
UCLA also returns their starting 5 star center, a junior transfer who was praised as a good get preseason, a sophomore point guard, a third year player who red shirted his first year due to injury, and a fifth year super senior.
Nwuba by the way is a clear case of non development. The fact that Mara is averaging more minutes per game than nwuba is just sad. Nwuba is playing less minutes per game this year on a much worse team. Coaching problem? Or is nwuba just getting worse? He’s certainly shown that he can play quality basketball against teams like Gonzaga… but whatever, we’re only looking at freshman failures because cronin can do no wrong
Tell me you don't know basketball without telling me you don't know basketball (third paragraph...actually second paragraph too).
it sounds like you want Cronin out. Absolutely nuts.
I don’t know if I hate cronin, but I certainly do not like him. I never have, never will, and have always thought he was a bad choice for ucla.
This difference between Cronin and Foster is that Cronin has proven himself a good coach. Foster is a great Bruin, but it is extremely rare for a head coach to be successful without having been a good coordinator. If UCLA wins 3 games next year, which is well within the realm of possibility, and probably likely, will there still be excitement.
For so much love, the support in games absolutely abysmal. UCLA probably has one of the lowest game attendance numbers in the pac-12
It is really sad to see so many empty seats at Pauley - should not be this way.
how many of those are in the student section? I wanted to go to the USC game and i couldn't find anything on Stubhub under $400
Now that the season is officially over, let’s clear the air here. I don’t “hate” anybody that I’ve never met, but I will call myself a “cronin hater”. I’ve never supported him and always thought he was a bad hire for ucla.
His win loss percentage at ucla is good. He’s done so with half a team that he didn’t recruit. He’s also got better players than he ever had at Cincinnati, and he’s playing in the pac-12 which has been poor compared to other power 5 conferences. He’s won one conference title and has yet to win the conference tournament. Prior to coming to ucla he coached for 13 years at Cincinnati. The majority of his “success” didn’t start until Cincinnati moved to lower tiered American athletic conference. His win loss percentage at Cincinnati there was .668. He made it to the sweet 16 one time and was consistently losing in the tournament earlier than expected.
Cronin is a blue collar coach. His biggest success stories are from hard working players that are not traditionally known for scoring lots of points. He’s not had glowing success with his 5 star players.
Last season was the most success cronin has ever had at any program. He had a championship caliber season. I think that season is an outlier that he won’t repeat again anywhere. This season is more typical of what cronin is capable of in the long run. I don’t think ucla should be having “rebuild years” that last 2-3 years. UConn for example just won a national championship and they are back in the top 5 this year.
Cronin is a bad recruiter. Maybe it is the nil fault, but he’s just not that good. This year is the norm. Players are committing to programs 1-2 years prior to starting school… but not to ucla. UCLA hopes for magical transfers and a month before season signees from oversees. We will have to wait until July again it seems to find out what next years surprise will be.
I’m not writing this to the Evan’s, army’s, and Dimitri’s of the world. Your rose colored glasses are so enamored with cronin that you can’t see his faults for what they are… the final 4 tournament was a fluke! UCLA had a poor season and snuck into the big dance. It was a fun magical run, but the rest of the season was hard to watch. You can try to tear me down, but time is on my side and ucla is heading in the wrong direction. I have never supported cronin and I never will. I put my money where my mouth is and am ready for when he is gone. Cronin is a mediocre coach, he is not elite. Elite coaches are headed for the hall of fame because they are consistently good… Cronin has not proven that he is. The move to a new conference is going to make this worse. I’m just trying to reveal what I’ve been saying all along in hopes that others can see the writing on the wall… before it’s too late. The program is currently in the dumps, next season is going to be the match that lights the dump on fire. When bona and nwuba are gone who will save this program? A magical transfer? No, there’s nothing in the cupboard for next year and you’ve already stated that ucla can’t compete with the Yankees… so let’s try something new. Let’s bring in a coach that’s exciting, a coach that entertains, a coach that’s less of a drill Sargent… please before it’s too late. We’ve been trying something new for the last 30 years. For those willing to hold onto hope, best of luck. Until then, I’ll be here to try and convince the masses that cronin will revert to his mean… and his mean at Cincinnati in the big east was… mediocre. He’s just that and nothing more. Last season was a trick, the real cronin that I knew is here this season. With all of the players that he recruited in a program that he built. Open your eyes, or don’t, it will be much easier to see next season in their new conference when they have another wild roller coaster ride and finish around .500
It saddens me to say it, but I was actually the least sad and disappointed I’ve been in watching ucla lose to usc. I actually expected it. As much as it pains me to say it, I’ll be cheering against cronin until he is gone. I’ll always be sad when ucla loses, but the quicker the masses realize cronin isn’t a good coach, the better. I’ll be hoping for more cronin mediocrity next year. It’s what he is… and the quicker everyone else realizes it, the quicker we get to move on
"I’ll be cheering against cronin until he is gone."
Yep, I'm done taking the bait. I'm done wasting my time.
lol. Like I said. Never gave him a chance, didn't change his opinion with a Final 4 run, wouldn't change his opinion with a national championship.
All of your statements are correct. And I agree that my opinion won’t change with a championship… but I don’t expect Cronin will ever win a college championship anywhere, you do
<clown emoji>
When Cronin wins a national championship, feel free to clown me all you want…
it would be one thing if you said if cronin wins a national championship, i'll admit i was wrong. But you said, "my opinion won’t change with a championship." You are a f***ing moron.
Cronin made it past the sweet 16 with ucla and created a championship caliber team last year. You know the last coach ucla had with a championship caliber season? Steve Alford did it one time with ball, anigbogu, leaf, etc… and those were ALL FRESHMAN that he recruited. Fast forward to ucla this year… also an all freshman team, just with much different results… ironically, ball don’t lie, pun intended
Yes, because clearly that teams' leading rebounder, Junior Thomas Welsh, 2nd leading scorer, Senior Bryce Alford, and double-digit per game scorers Senior Isaac Hamilton (started every game) and Sophomore who started every game as a freshman & future pro Aaron Holiday (26 mins/game off the bench) had NOTHING to do with the one, singular success of Alfor that season - it was all Lonzo, Leaf, and Ike (who played 13 mins/game and never started once). Ball don't lie indeed - unless its LeVar selling shoes! I guess your memory really is failing...
My point was more that the freshman that Alford recruited that year were instant impact players. Cronin doesn’t seem to get that instant impact from his freshman guys…. Certainly not this year. But you’re not wrong, that team was stacked. And so was last years championship caliber team
it's like you ignored 90% of this thread. John Wooden or Coach K themselves would not be getting instant impact freshmen with the state of NIL. It's so bad that Cronin has made seven offers TOTAL to high school seniors for next season. It's actually very similar to when Cronin recruited Jaime Jaquez at Cincinnati. He said he knew he had no shot because of what he had to offer, but it was worth a call because it was Jaime. Do you are expect 18 year old kids, most of whom (almost all of whom?) do not come from wealthy backgrounds, to turn down half a million dollars cash because it is some special honor to wear the four letters.
lol he really teed up that one for ya. what a strange comparison.
Ok, I’ve done enough damage for at least a month. It’s been quite the bender eh? I have one last little game to play. I wanted to play a game. Let’s just say for kicks that you’re an 18 year old 5 star recruit and have offers from the below programs. If you had to rank them by where you’re going what would you choose. You can even include possible nil monies in your decision:
UCLA
Arizona
Houston
Connecticut
Duke
North Carolina
Marquette
Kansas
Kentucky
Gonzaga
Wisconsin
Villanova
I’ll add one caveat… if you’re ballsy enough to put ucla at the top of your list and show everyone that is where you’d go, then I’ll do my best to never reply to any of your comments ever again!
how much money is each school offering (the collective not the school itself)?
That’s a good question… I don’t really understand how wide the disparity truly is, so I’m not even going to guess. Somebody mentioned a few hundred thousand. I’d be really curious what Caleb love got to go to Arizona. If I’m 18 and already on the west coast, I’m taking a hard look at Arizona. The only sports program in town, tons of donor money, a raucous college town, a packed arena for every home game, a young coach that doesn’t seem to do a lot of discipline (one of the reasons love went there was probably to have a really long leash or none at all), dedicated fans, no scholastic requirements… but yeah, he must have been handed a lot of cash to come play there
word is caleb love got over 500k. and he's not close to top NIL guy. If I'm 18 and someone is offering me $500k up front to play a year of basketball, i'll go play for a JC in Mexico City.
Why would anyone want to be a D1 bb coach these days?
Already seeing it in football... basketball is probably next
Don't leave us, Baskets!
lol! If nothing else, I do provide some entertainment. I’ll definitely get under your skin… so you have to take anything I do with a grain of salt
A confession from the "hopium" dealer? :-)
But hold on, there's still 4 more regular season games, plus the conference tournament to provide entertainment. The supply is running low, though--got any more "hopium"?
LOL!
Mine is clean dried up… and the horse is definitely dead by now
Poor horse! Joe and Josephine Bruin look pretty beat up too. Maybe the NIL collectives can provide some more "hopium"?
Because they can't shoot. 41% overall as a team is pathetic. Last in the conference in FG%.