I'm not trying to sugarcoat it either. I'm saying that it is not going to get better because of how this roster is constructed. We don't have a shooter. We don't have a scorer. And we don't have a point guard. And none of that can be changed via coaching. We need different players. That makes us very, very easy to defend.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat it either. I'm saying that it is not going to get better because of how this roster is constructed. We don't have a shooter. We don't have a scorer. And we don't have a point guard. And none of that can be changed via coaching. We need different players. That makes us very, very easy to defend.
We don’t have a shooter, we don’t have a scorer, and we don’t have a point guard. And none of that can be changed by coaching… I think the point guard can be coached, but agree the others are much harder to develop. We need different players….
How do we get different players? I think this happens with proper team construction that starts with… RECRUITING! This is the first roster constructed entirely by cronin starting with the point guard he recruited to replace the point guard that he did not recruit. It is also the first roster absent of a true 3pt threat. Cronin recruited lazar to replace singleton who he also did not recruit. Every single gap that you highlighted could have been filled with proper recruiting and a coach who knows how to construct a team
You’re really banking hard on the nil being the problem… lay it on me how that explains the current rankings for the 2024 ucla recruiting class. It’s trending to be the worst recruiting class since rankings were a thing right?
Do all 90 of those schools really have more nil money then ucla? I mean, you’re the nil expert apparently, so explain that to me in layman’s terms. Based on your level of expertise and insider knowledge, you probably have excel sheet with all the nil money for every ncaa school that you can share
It’s clear from anyone reading these threads that you know a lot more about nil than I do. Can you answer some questions on it that might help explain why ucla is sitting at the 90th ranked recruiting class for next season? You mentioned 500k for Louisville. Is that for every Louisville recruit, or just a select recruit or two? Do they have 5 million in nil money for just their college basketball team? Is this the case for all other 90 programs that are currently recruiting better than ucla for next year? Does that mean ucla basketball has 100k, 200k, 500k in this type of money? What about deals that the players do on their own? Dylan Andrews has his own advertisements that he’s in, are those his own contracts that he has set up? If you have knowledge in all of the above, where are you getting your numbers and information? Are you a registered sports agent or something, because they are probably the next up to know about this information outside of the coaches. And I doubt the college coaches are at liberty to give out specific numbers as they probably have to sign legal documents that prevent them from actually talking about the true numbers. I don’t doubt that the nil is contributing to the recruiting problem, I’m just curious where you are getting all of this inside information. Maybe it’s all readily available somewhere online that you can point us to? Outside of what cronin has said in his press conferences, I haven’t actually seen any true numbers or evidence anywhere online… just a bunch of “rumors” from people that heard something through someone through someone
Facts don’t have feelings. UCLA is not getting recruits right now because it has no nil money…
Because you put that after, you’re claiming it as fact. I’d like to see some confirmable facts that support your statement. You’re claiming something to be facts but haven’t realeased any actual verifiable numbers to support it. The numbers you’ve thrown out are all just rumors that I can tell… I’ve heard what cronin said, but he didn’t give any numbers either, and he’s one of the only coaches in the nation using this excuse as to why he has unintelligent players on his roster as he said in his press conference
Could be different players or it could be current players learning and improving. Tyger Campbell came under a lot of criticism in his first two years. There’s a ton of work to do for the rest of this season and the off season.
Agree! Mara and lazar both need to go. Mick took flyers on two players that don’t fit his coaching style hoping they would fix his problems. Neither of these players are mick type players, but no other mick type players wanted to play for him this year, so he took these two hoping he could make them work in his system, but they aren’t suited for micks system
Dude, you are truly ignorant about basketball and player development. You just declare that an 18 year old 7’3” guy is a failure. At 18! Dumb as it gets. Lazar is a junior, by contrast, and he needs his minutes greatly reduced.
I didn’t say aday was a failure… I said he doesn’t fit into cronins coaching style. Maybe he can be developed, but he’s not a hard nosed defensive minded player. He doesn’t fit with cronin
How many non hard nosed defensive players did Cronin inherit from Alford? Zero. He changed the culture. How many times did Jules Bernard drive into traffic and take bad shots or commit a turnover? Lots, much like Mack currently. It took Bernard a couple of years for it to sink in. We gave 4 18 year old kids from Europe and none of us know what they are going through. New country. New school. Different style of basketball. They likely came in with high hopes and things are probably a lot different than they imagined. The point is, nobody knows. Not you. Not me. I’m not going to pretend to know things I don’t know. What I do know is that 18 year olds aren’t finished products. I do think Mick should play them all a bit more.
Not trying to speak for Army, who can clearly speak for himself, but personally, while I concede the point that Mara is not now in the vicinity of a "hard nosed defensive player" he is an 18 year old kid who isn't in the vicinity of a finished product either. If he wants to be an NBA player, he will have to develop that aspect of his game, even to be a "poor man's Chet Holmgren" to compare him to someone with his body-type and potential skill set. None of us know if he has the willingness to put in that work but to say the verdict is in at this point is premature, no?
I also agree that UCLA should never have throw away seasons - but here we are. In the spirit of lighting a candle rather than just cursing the - admittedly deepening - darkness, I'd rather see more B.Will, Fibleuil (the two best perimeter defenders), Berke, and yes, Mara along with Mack & Bona to have a better sense of who should be part of the program going forward and who should be thanked for their service and invited to take their talents elsewhere. I will also agree with you that the regression from where this group was against Marquette/Gonzaga/Nova is really disturbing.
For this season, the rest of the Pac12 season is just a preseason for the conference tourney anyway (like the NBA regular season is a preseason for the playoffs except for a few bubble teams) the last 3 seasons should give Cronin the freedom to treat it that way... personally, I'd be more patient with watching this very bad basketball if that was the focus, at least there'd be a point.
You just see what you want to see but didn’t even read what I wrote. You call me ignorant, but take something completely out of context and say something that I didn’t write. Not even close! How can we have any sort of discussion when you take what I said and assume that I was calling aday a failure when I said nothing of the sort. I said he needs to go because he isn’t a mick type player
You coming to make yourself look like army, or you two one and the same? I mean, it’s really not that hard to read my comment and decipher that yes, I think they should go because I don’t think they fit cronins player type… I said nothing about them being failures in that post.
Regardless, I’m done with you and army… just give it a few more years. I’ll be proven right. Cronin isn’t a good recruiter and his coaching style is bad for ucla. Just give it time Evan. Once the dumpster is really on fire, you won’t have any choice. Next year is the year I’m proven right…. Or wrong. Unfortunately for me, ucla structured cronins contract such that he won’t be fired until at least the end of next season. It doesn’t matter if they lose every game left this season, ucla can’t afford the buyout
He needs to go not because hez’s a failure but because you have determined in your infinite wisdom that he’s not a Mick type player? As I said, you are ignorant and by that I mean you don’t know what you don’t know. How msny practices have you attended? Probably the same amount as me. He may or may not adapt to Mick’s coaching. You probably have a 50/50 shot at being correct. BUT, you simply pull your opinions out of your rear end with zero facts. Most educated people try to get some facts together before they form opinions. That has certainly changed in the social media era. I guess that’s like the idea that kids don’t want to defend these days.
Who’s the best defender in the nba right now? Or even in college basketball for that matter. How many kids watch those games just to see that player play defense? How does that compare to those kids that idolize Kevin Durant, lebron James, Michael Jordan, Steph curry for their offensive games. They go out and practice on the hoop in their yard, they practice OFFENSE. Sure, defense is important, but it’s not the priority in today’s game for good reason. It’s not entertaining.
I determined that he’s not a mick type player by watching him play. Yes he has potential, but there are certain players that show up that look like players that mick could mold. Players like berke and fibleil fit that bill. Mack probably does… I just use my eyes and watch for intensity. You don’t need stats to see that Mara isn’t a good defender, but those are actually there too! I’m guessing he has one of the lowest +/- numbers on the team because he’s not built to be a defensive player
Yes, you are an experienced talent evaluator. Mara isn’t a good defender now. You are correct that players don’t practice defense much. A lot of basketball practice is kids shooting alone. Defense is taught and is reliant on great effort. The new recruits from Europe certainly have no experience in defending like Cronin demands. It takes time to learn, even for transfers. Myles Johnson didn’t pick up on it quickly. Did you play basketball in high school? Attend any basketball camps hosted by college coaches? How is it you came to be so knowledgeable? Just as a spectator?
That makes total sense. If you had ever competed, you might have learned a little humility. When I was growing up, I was the best player in my grade at every school I attended, including high school. One time, we were participating in the Watts Summer Games and I was tasked with guarding a player named Marques Johnson. It was a very humbling experience. In case you don’t know, Marques number is retired at UCLA and he was the Wooden Award Winner. My older brother played against Jamaal Wilkes. Had you ever competed, you might have some understanding of hiw good you have to be just to earn a college scholarship. I also played Division 1 golf and lost to future pga tour members, one who I caddied for in one tour event. So, when you spew opinions that display no understanding of the game, it’s quite obvious.
Those are quite the accolades, and that’s good. It doesn’t preclude you from being wrong or admitting when you are. Sure, you have a lot more things on your resume, but you’ve been wrong in the past and your lack of humility is just about zero historically in this site. Just because I didn’t play basketball doesn’t mean I didn’t play other competitive sports through college… but you wouldn’t care about that because there’s nothing I can ever say that will help you realize that you are wrong sometimes, just like everyone else in this world. When Cronin goes down and gets fired in the future, I’ll be here to say I told you so, but even then it won’t matter because you don’t have the ability to admit when you’re wrong
For that matter, it was Iguodala's & Draymond's (when he keeps his composure) defense that enabled the "Death Star" lineup and let the champion Warriors "hide" Steph's defensive shortcomings... and might have won 4 titles in a row without LeBron's "Chase Down" block late in Game 7 which is probably the single most famous play in his long career...
There's a reason why desirable wings are referred to as "3 & D", no?
Lol. By this guy's standards, Campbell, Singleton, Riley, Bernard, and Chris Smith all needed to go after their freshmen year. And if Mara goes anywhere it's to the draft.
I mean, I guess it's possible Andews makes a big leap and becomes a serviceable PG? Tyger always had solid PG potential. Andrews is not showing this. On the shooter, no. We do not have someone who has that skillset. Mack could be a scorer one day, but he's a year and probably two away from being a number 1 scoring option on a decent team.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat it either. I'm saying that it is not going to get better because of how this roster is constructed. We don't have a shooter. We don't have a scorer. And we don't have a point guard. And none of that can be changed via coaching. We need different players. That makes us very, very easy to defend.
We don’t have a shooter, we don’t have a scorer, and we don’t have a point guard. And none of that can be changed by coaching… I think the point guard can be coached, but agree the others are much harder to develop. We need different players….
How do we get different players? I think this happens with proper team construction that starts with… RECRUITING! This is the first roster constructed entirely by cronin starting with the point guard he recruited to replace the point guard that he did not recruit. It is also the first roster absent of a true 3pt threat. Cronin recruited lazar to replace singleton who he also did not recruit. Every single gap that you highlighted could have been filled with proper recruiting and a coach who knows how to construct a team
It actually starts with NIL these days, but ok.
You’re really banking hard on the nil being the problem… lay it on me how that explains the current rankings for the 2024 ucla recruiting class. It’s trending to be the worst recruiting class since rankings were a thing right?
Do all 90 of those schools really have more nil money then ucla? I mean, you’re the nil expert apparently, so explain that to me in layman’s terms. Based on your level of expertise and insider knowledge, you probably have excel sheet with all the nil money for every ncaa school that you can share
facts don't have feelings.
UCLA is not getting recruits right now because it has no NIL money. You cannot get elite recruits at any school without a robust NIL collective.
It’s clear from anyone reading these threads that you know a lot more about nil than I do. Can you answer some questions on it that might help explain why ucla is sitting at the 90th ranked recruiting class for next season? You mentioned 500k for Louisville. Is that for every Louisville recruit, or just a select recruit or two? Do they have 5 million in nil money for just their college basketball team? Is this the case for all other 90 programs that are currently recruiting better than ucla for next year? Does that mean ucla basketball has 100k, 200k, 500k in this type of money? What about deals that the players do on their own? Dylan Andrews has his own advertisements that he’s in, are those his own contracts that he has set up? If you have knowledge in all of the above, where are you getting your numbers and information? Are you a registered sports agent or something, because they are probably the next up to know about this information outside of the coaches. And I doubt the college coaches are at liberty to give out specific numbers as they probably have to sign legal documents that prevent them from actually talking about the true numbers. I don’t doubt that the nil is contributing to the recruiting problem, I’m just curious where you are getting all of this inside information. Maybe it’s all readily available somewhere online that you can point us to? Outside of what cronin has said in his press conferences, I haven’t actually seen any true numbers or evidence anywhere online… just a bunch of “rumors” from people that heard something through someone through someone
Facts don’t have feelings. UCLA is not getting recruits right now because it has no nil money…
Because you put that after, you’re claiming it as fact. I’d like to see some confirmable facts that support your statement. You’re claiming something to be facts but haven’t realeased any actual verifiable numbers to support it. The numbers you’ve thrown out are all just rumors that I can tell… I’ve heard what cronin said, but he didn’t give any numbers either, and he’s one of the only coaches in the nation using this excuse as to why he has unintelligent players on his roster as he said in his press conference
Could be different players or it could be current players learning and improving. Tyger Campbell came under a lot of criticism in his first two years. There’s a ton of work to do for the rest of this season and the off season.
Agree! Mara and lazar both need to go. Mick took flyers on two players that don’t fit his coaching style hoping they would fix his problems. Neither of these players are mick type players, but no other mick type players wanted to play for him this year, so he took these two hoping he could make them work in his system, but they aren’t suited for micks system
Dude, you are truly ignorant about basketball and player development. You just declare that an 18 year old 7’3” guy is a failure. At 18! Dumb as it gets. Lazar is a junior, by contrast, and he needs his minutes greatly reduced.
I didn’t say aday was a failure… I said he doesn’t fit into cronins coaching style. Maybe he can be developed, but he’s not a hard nosed defensive minded player. He doesn’t fit with cronin
How many non hard nosed defensive players did Cronin inherit from Alford? Zero. He changed the culture. How many times did Jules Bernard drive into traffic and take bad shots or commit a turnover? Lots, much like Mack currently. It took Bernard a couple of years for it to sink in. We gave 4 18 year old kids from Europe and none of us know what they are going through. New country. New school. Different style of basketball. They likely came in with high hopes and things are probably a lot different than they imagined. The point is, nobody knows. Not you. Not me. I’m not going to pretend to know things I don’t know. What I do know is that 18 year olds aren’t finished products. I do think Mick should play them all a bit more.
His hole keeps getting deeper.
Crap, posted before I read your post, AB. Great minds think alike, yeah? :-)
Not trying to speak for Army, who can clearly speak for himself, but personally, while I concede the point that Mara is not now in the vicinity of a "hard nosed defensive player" he is an 18 year old kid who isn't in the vicinity of a finished product either. If he wants to be an NBA player, he will have to develop that aspect of his game, even to be a "poor man's Chet Holmgren" to compare him to someone with his body-type and potential skill set. None of us know if he has the willingness to put in that work but to say the verdict is in at this point is premature, no?
I also agree that UCLA should never have throw away seasons - but here we are. In the spirit of lighting a candle rather than just cursing the - admittedly deepening - darkness, I'd rather see more B.Will, Fibleuil (the two best perimeter defenders), Berke, and yes, Mara along with Mack & Bona to have a better sense of who should be part of the program going forward and who should be thanked for their service and invited to take their talents elsewhere. I will also agree with you that the regression from where this group was against Marquette/Gonzaga/Nova is really disturbing.
For this season, the rest of the Pac12 season is just a preseason for the conference tourney anyway (like the NBA regular season is a preseason for the playoffs except for a few bubble teams) the last 3 seasons should give Cronin the freedom to treat it that way... personally, I'd be more patient with watching this very bad basketball if that was the focus, at least there'd be a point.
And NO, I don't think we're going to win the Pac12 tourney! But short of just cancelling the season, that is now the goal, right?
You just see what you want to see but didn’t even read what I wrote. You call me ignorant, but take something completely out of context and say something that I didn’t write. Not even close! How can we have any sort of discussion when you take what I said and assume that I was calling aday a failure when I said nothing of the sort. I said he needs to go because he isn’t a mick type player
well what you wrote is quite literally "Mara and lazar both need to go."
You coming to make yourself look like army, or you two one and the same? I mean, it’s really not that hard to read my comment and decipher that yes, I think they should go because I don’t think they fit cronins player type… I said nothing about them being failures in that post.
Regardless, I’m done with you and army… just give it a few more years. I’ll be proven right. Cronin isn’t a good recruiter and his coaching style is bad for ucla. Just give it time Evan. Once the dumpster is really on fire, you won’t have any choice. Next year is the year I’m proven right…. Or wrong. Unfortunately for me, ucla structured cronins contract such that he won’t be fired until at least the end of next season. It doesn’t matter if they lose every game left this season, ucla can’t afford the buyout
He needs to go not because hez’s a failure but because you have determined in your infinite wisdom that he’s not a Mick type player? As I said, you are ignorant and by that I mean you don’t know what you don’t know. How msny practices have you attended? Probably the same amount as me. He may or may not adapt to Mick’s coaching. You probably have a 50/50 shot at being correct. BUT, you simply pull your opinions out of your rear end with zero facts. Most educated people try to get some facts together before they form opinions. That has certainly changed in the social media era. I guess that’s like the idea that kids don’t want to defend these days.
Who’s the best defender in the nba right now? Or even in college basketball for that matter. How many kids watch those games just to see that player play defense? How does that compare to those kids that idolize Kevin Durant, lebron James, Michael Jordan, Steph curry for their offensive games. They go out and practice on the hoop in their yard, they practice OFFENSE. Sure, defense is important, but it’s not the priority in today’s game for good reason. It’s not entertaining.
I determined that he’s not a mick type player by watching him play. Yes he has potential, but there are certain players that show up that look like players that mick could mold. Players like berke and fibleil fit that bill. Mack probably does… I just use my eyes and watch for intensity. You don’t need stats to see that Mara isn’t a good defender, but those are actually there too! I’m guessing he has one of the lowest +/- numbers on the team because he’s not built to be a defensive player
Yes, you are an experienced talent evaluator. Mara isn’t a good defender now. You are correct that players don’t practice defense much. A lot of basketball practice is kids shooting alone. Defense is taught and is reliant on great effort. The new recruits from Europe certainly have no experience in defending like Cronin demands. It takes time to learn, even for transfers. Myles Johnson didn’t pick up on it quickly. Did you play basketball in high school? Attend any basketball camps hosted by college coaches? How is it you came to be so knowledgeable? Just as a spectator?
Just a spectator … that’s all
That makes total sense. If you had ever competed, you might have learned a little humility. When I was growing up, I was the best player in my grade at every school I attended, including high school. One time, we were participating in the Watts Summer Games and I was tasked with guarding a player named Marques Johnson. It was a very humbling experience. In case you don’t know, Marques number is retired at UCLA and he was the Wooden Award Winner. My older brother played against Jamaal Wilkes. Had you ever competed, you might have some understanding of hiw good you have to be just to earn a college scholarship. I also played Division 1 golf and lost to future pga tour members, one who I caddied for in one tour event. So, when you spew opinions that display no understanding of the game, it’s quite obvious.
Those are quite the accolades, and that’s good. It doesn’t preclude you from being wrong or admitting when you are. Sure, you have a lot more things on your resume, but you’ve been wrong in the past and your lack of humility is just about zero historically in this site. Just because I didn’t play basketball doesn’t mean I didn’t play other competitive sports through college… but you wouldn’t care about that because there’s nothing I can ever say that will help you realize that you are wrong sometimes, just like everyone else in this world. When Cronin goes down and gets fired in the future, I’ll be here to say I told you so, but even then it won’t matter because you don’t have the ability to admit when you’re wrong
best defender probably Jrue Holiday or Kawhi
For that matter, it was Iguodala's & Draymond's (when he keeps his composure) defense that enabled the "Death Star" lineup and let the champion Warriors "hide" Steph's defensive shortcomings... and might have won 4 titles in a row without LeBron's "Chase Down" block late in Game 7 which is probably the single most famous play in his long career...
There's a reason why desirable wings are referred to as "3 & D", no?
Lol. By this guy's standards, Campbell, Singleton, Riley, Bernard, and Chris Smith all needed to go after their freshmen year. And if Mara goes anywhere it's to the draft.
I mean, I guess it's possible Andews makes a big leap and becomes a serviceable PG? Tyger always had solid PG potential. Andrews is not showing this. On the shooter, no. We do not have someone who has that skillset. Mack could be a scorer one day, but he's a year and probably two away from being a number 1 scoring option on a decent team.