This season is over. This team's problems goe way beyond youth, imho.
Remember these guys - the Fab Five at Michigan... Quoted from Wikipedia...
"The Fab Five were the first team in NCAA history to compete in the championship game with all-freshman starters. ...Ray Jackson, Juwan Howard, Jalen Rose, Jimmy King and Chris Webber."
This season is over. This team's problems goe way beyond youth, imho.
Remember these guys - the Fab Five at Michigan... Quoted from Wikipedia...
"The Fab Five were the first team in NCAA history to compete in the championship game with all-freshman starters. ...Ray Jackson, Juwan Howard, Jalen Rose, Jimmy King and Chris Webber."
Or how about this year's Univ of Kentucky team who are currently ranked 16th... Quote from Ben Roberts...
"The UK roster of 2023-24 features just one Wildcat who played major minutes last season and only three scholarship returnees, period. There are nine newcomers. Eight of those players are freshmen..."
Cronin has weaknesses and it's not just recruiting which is for sure a glaring weakness. But his iso offense requires 5 star players or at the very least multiple go to guys. And yes, playing tough defense requires players who natually have that mindset. We have neither.
But we also do not have an offense minded coach and he won't change his style. Unless the defense is outstanding and the offense has those 'star' iso players, we are not going to score enough points to win.
Recruiting issues. Lack of offense. Lack of toughness. Disaster. Cronin should take a good amount of blame for all of this - it's not just the players fault.
I believe so. Howland had the lunch pail players until he didn't and result was disaster. He couldn't blame the players he recruited - they were highly ranked players but they didn't fit his style or system.
Cronin had the lunch pail players until he didn't and result is disaster. He can't blame the players he recruited. Many were 4 star players but they don't fit his style and system and there are not a lot of players who want to play his way.
Why does the team start every game tentatively? Why do they come out flat after halftime? Is CMC not doing his job in preparing his team, or are the players not listening nor responding?
Mick Cronin does not run ISO by choice. I'm sure he would love to run pick and roll, but he doesn't have the personnel to do it. Pick and roll is a nuanced offense. There are 5 phases to PNR and 6 options. On past teams, Cronin had 3 very good pick and roll initiators in Tyger, Jaime, and Bernard. On this team, Andrews is the only PNR handler on the team and his ability to recognize and control the outcome of a PNR is entirely too slow. He's not a good handler and his passing is suspect. We've seen Andrews get stripped at the point of attack often and we've also seen him throw some atrocious lob passes on a Bona roll to the rim.
Forget about Mack. He's nowhere close to running PNR as the initiator. You would think with his ability to get to the hoop, you would think he could use Bona as either a screener or as a high post initiator with Mack running a curl to the rim. But Mack doesn't know how to work off of a screen nor can he reliably feed a high post (probably never had to in high school) and Bona has no ability to back feed Mack out of the post. So that's a dead action.
If nobody understand that play, think of Kobe and Gasol back in the day. Gasol would slide up to the FT line to set a pick, Kobe would lob a pass into Gasol and jet to the hoop and Gasol would drop a pocket pass or lob it to the rim and in both cases, Kobe would convert it. And with the triangle, Gasol had a secondary option on the weakside. They used to run this option probably 10 times per game like it was a walk in the park with a high percentage conversion rate.
And getting back to the UCLA's PNR, neither Bona nor Nwuba are effective screeners. Part of the problem is Andrew's inability to control the action and the longer Andrews takes, the chances of setting a moving screen becomes bigger. And we know Bona and Nwuba get plenty of offensive fouls on screens. Mara has not yet become a good screener largely because he doesn't know how to take advantage of his length.
Cronin is not an ISO coach. In fact I'd say he's only had one good ISO player in the entire time he's been at UCLA, namely Jaquez who has proven at the NBA level that he's an above average shot creator. Bernard was decent but his handle was bit loose, Tyger tried, but he was too little, both Clark and Bailey could have been good had they stayed, and Juzang was a spot up shooter at best. I lost track of how many times Juzang would dribble the ball off his leg while driving to the basket with no defenders on him.
Cronin is PNR coach which is fine because it's the most prevalent play in basketball and hardest to defend and his teams are hard to beat when they execute. But because he has players on this current squad who can't execute PNR cleanly, his only fallback offense is to let the players improvise in ISO and hopefully make lemonade out of lemons.
It will be better next season. The players will have an understanding of their roles and their shortcomings with an entire summer to work on them. Cronin and the new players never had that type of opportunity last summer, I have plenty of faith in Cronin. Considering how poorly the season started, I thought he did a good job of getting them to play better basketball, but some of the issues were simply not fixable in-season.
I mentioned Bernard earlier. He's been playing really well in the G-League. Unfortunately, he's blocked by Jordan Poole on the Wizards. He's still turnover prone, but his handle and his footwork has improved, he's knocking down jumpers, he finishing at the rim, he's getting a big number of rebounds from the SG position, and he's playing defense. I think he's going to get a shot somewhere in the league. If the Wizards don't resign him, and with Max Christie as a walk free agent this offseason, he could be a fit on the Lakers on a minimum deal. Fingers crossed for Jules.
Thanks so much for sharing all about the PNR and Cronin. PNR is elegant, rhythmic and highly efficient but requires a certain type of player - great passing, great ball handling, great court vision and controlled quickness. Yes, Tyger, JJJ and Bernard were all pretty darn good 😊
So would love to know your opinion as to why Cronin did not recuit a number of players who can run the PNR? If that is truly the offense he wants to run then why do we not have a single player who shows even great potential with the PNR? I bet there are plenty of high schools who run the PNR effectively and have great players.
PNR also seems to set the table for a high scoring offense. The Lakers were a high scoring offense with Kobe, Shaq etc. But Cronin's teams have been historically low scoring - both at Cinci and UCLA. Even last year's team was a low scoring team with a lot of scoring droughts. Just seems odd.
The answer on the recruiting PnR players has as much to do with the shift in style at the high school/AAU level. It’s much more iso focused in part because there’s a lack of top-end bigs spread out (the system to the pros consolidates talent at each level, so high school has the most talent spread out compared to other levels) and the rise of teams like the Warriors causing the next generation to focus more on outside shooting than getting to the rim. The Jaquez piece that the Ringer did a few weeks ago kind of highlighted that he was an outlier compared to his peers in that he idolized Kobe and that iso style.
Doesn’t really matter that PnR is a bread-and-butter play at the NBA level when a lot of the high school coaches gravitate towards a different style (specifically a lot of motion-based offenses that put stress on the defense by forcing mismatches). It makes for a situation where PnR becomes a teaching concept at the college level instead.
I think he can do it, but Cronin's offensive philosophy while at UCLA has been to custom-bake the offense based on what the personnel he has can and can't do. That's why the Final Four run was so heavily built on isolation scoring, because he had one player on an all-time March heater (Juzang) and another ruthlessly-efficient iso player (Jaquez) and it made sense to go through them (that team and year after both featured top 15 offenses per KenPom). Last year's squad, which finished 21st in offensive rating, did similar things but was really locked in on defense which drove the offense (think about how many transition points UCLA scored last year). I think if Cronin had a point guard who could run PnR effectively (as much as I love Tyger, he also was not a great PnR point guard) and bigs who could fill in, you'd see a lot more of that in the offense.
It's also the downside of Cronin, because his focus (rightly, in my opinion) is on the defensive side and having that be as great as possible. It's a March-focused plan rather than a whole-season plan, which is why Cronin has had more success in March than someone like Tommy Lloyd who runs a much-prettier offense than Cronin. UConn got a lot of flowers for its offense last year but they also had a top 10 defense that could keep them in games when the offense would occasionally stagnate. I think you'll have games where the offense looks out of sorts with Cronin because, again, it's not his area of concern, and frankly I think a Cronin that went hunting after systemic improvements on offense falls into the same trap that doomed Howland.
It will be interesting to see how the 'tryouts' go for the players, what roster changes Cronin makes and the outcomes moving forward. We will see how next year takes shape in terms of fundamentals, chemistry, character etc.
I agree Cronin would be doomed if he recruited elitist players like Howland did as that group was sorely lacking in character.
Imho, it's also sad that the landscape of college sports has changed for the worse - NIL was bound to become corrupt as money leads to greed which leads to lack of loyalty. It's much harder to build greatness.
So lots of challenges and issues ahead but I am still hoping Cronin can overcome them and develop a successful team.
Thank you for that detailed analysis - much appreciated. I'd also add, if I may, that not only does the high screen action inevitably lead to at least one offensive foul for Bona but it also all too often leads to him being out of position on the offensive glass which leads to his low rebounding numbers...
When our offense was working, it wasn't so much ISO and certainly not PNR but being patient enough to let Bona establish position at the low post and take entry passes to either take on the single or pass out of the double to a shooter who either spotted up or cut behind the doubling defender. We've gotten away from that -and the shooting has sunk since we are inconsistent - and, as the effort has flagged in the last two games, we get back to the bad we thought we'd escaped.
The thing is, shooting might be inconsistent but effort shouldn't be and that has to begin from within. Of course Jaime is a unique dude, but I'm with Mick in saying that a lot of flaws can be what they are and have to be coached around or accounted for, but lack of effort isn't and can't be one of them.
This season is over. This team's problems goe way beyond youth, imho.
Remember these guys - the Fab Five at Michigan... Quoted from Wikipedia...
"The Fab Five were the first team in NCAA history to compete in the championship game with all-freshman starters. ...Ray Jackson, Juwan Howard, Jalen Rose, Jimmy King and Chris Webber."
Or how about this year's Univ of Kentucky team who are currently ranked 16th... Quote from Ben Roberts...
"The UK roster of 2023-24 features just one Wildcat who played major minutes last season and only three scholarship returnees, period. There are nine newcomers. Eight of those players are freshmen..."
Cronin has weaknesses and it's not just recruiting which is for sure a glaring weakness. But his iso offense requires 5 star players or at the very least multiple go to guys. And yes, playing tough defense requires players who natually have that mindset. We have neither.
But we also do not have an offense minded coach and he won't change his style. Unless the defense is outstanding and the offense has those 'star' iso players, we are not going to score enough points to win.
Recruiting issues. Lack of offense. Lack of toughness. Disaster. Cronin should take a good amount of blame for all of this - it's not just the players fault.
The CMC offense, "Please, someone get hot."
CMC recruiting, the players are soft and have no "dog" (per CMC) in them. Why are there no CMC lunch pail guys? Has he, too, "lost his way?"
I believe so. Howland had the lunch pail players until he didn't and result was disaster. He couldn't blame the players he recruited - they were highly ranked players but they didn't fit his style or system.
Cronin had the lunch pail players until he didn't and result is disaster. He can't blame the players he recruited. Many were 4 star players but they don't fit his style and system and there are not a lot of players who want to play his way.
Nor is there a healthy NIL to attract players. That won't be remedied soon, either.
Agree, Tamara, we started off well enough but they adjusted and whipped us . (coaching?)
Why does the team start every game tentatively? Why do they come out flat after halftime? Is CMC not doing his job in preparing his team, or are the players not listening nor responding?
Mick Cronin does not run ISO by choice. I'm sure he would love to run pick and roll, but he doesn't have the personnel to do it. Pick and roll is a nuanced offense. There are 5 phases to PNR and 6 options. On past teams, Cronin had 3 very good pick and roll initiators in Tyger, Jaime, and Bernard. On this team, Andrews is the only PNR handler on the team and his ability to recognize and control the outcome of a PNR is entirely too slow. He's not a good handler and his passing is suspect. We've seen Andrews get stripped at the point of attack often and we've also seen him throw some atrocious lob passes on a Bona roll to the rim.
Forget about Mack. He's nowhere close to running PNR as the initiator. You would think with his ability to get to the hoop, you would think he could use Bona as either a screener or as a high post initiator with Mack running a curl to the rim. But Mack doesn't know how to work off of a screen nor can he reliably feed a high post (probably never had to in high school) and Bona has no ability to back feed Mack out of the post. So that's a dead action.
If nobody understand that play, think of Kobe and Gasol back in the day. Gasol would slide up to the FT line to set a pick, Kobe would lob a pass into Gasol and jet to the hoop and Gasol would drop a pocket pass or lob it to the rim and in both cases, Kobe would convert it. And with the triangle, Gasol had a secondary option on the weakside. They used to run this option probably 10 times per game like it was a walk in the park with a high percentage conversion rate.
And getting back to the UCLA's PNR, neither Bona nor Nwuba are effective screeners. Part of the problem is Andrew's inability to control the action and the longer Andrews takes, the chances of setting a moving screen becomes bigger. And we know Bona and Nwuba get plenty of offensive fouls on screens. Mara has not yet become a good screener largely because he doesn't know how to take advantage of his length.
Cronin is not an ISO coach. In fact I'd say he's only had one good ISO player in the entire time he's been at UCLA, namely Jaquez who has proven at the NBA level that he's an above average shot creator. Bernard was decent but his handle was bit loose, Tyger tried, but he was too little, both Clark and Bailey could have been good had they stayed, and Juzang was a spot up shooter at best. I lost track of how many times Juzang would dribble the ball off his leg while driving to the basket with no defenders on him.
Cronin is PNR coach which is fine because it's the most prevalent play in basketball and hardest to defend and his teams are hard to beat when they execute. But because he has players on this current squad who can't execute PNR cleanly, his only fallback offense is to let the players improvise in ISO and hopefully make lemonade out of lemons.
It will be better next season. The players will have an understanding of their roles and their shortcomings with an entire summer to work on them. Cronin and the new players never had that type of opportunity last summer, I have plenty of faith in Cronin. Considering how poorly the season started, I thought he did a good job of getting them to play better basketball, but some of the issues were simply not fixable in-season.
I mentioned Bernard earlier. He's been playing really well in the G-League. Unfortunately, he's blocked by Jordan Poole on the Wizards. He's still turnover prone, but his handle and his footwork has improved, he's knocking down jumpers, he finishing at the rim, he's getting a big number of rebounds from the SG position, and he's playing defense. I think he's going to get a shot somewhere in the league. If the Wizards don't resign him, and with Max Christie as a walk free agent this offseason, he could be a fit on the Lakers on a minimum deal. Fingers crossed for Jules.
Thanks so much for sharing all about the PNR and Cronin. PNR is elegant, rhythmic and highly efficient but requires a certain type of player - great passing, great ball handling, great court vision and controlled quickness. Yes, Tyger, JJJ and Bernard were all pretty darn good 😊
So would love to know your opinion as to why Cronin did not recuit a number of players who can run the PNR? If that is truly the offense he wants to run then why do we not have a single player who shows even great potential with the PNR? I bet there are plenty of high schools who run the PNR effectively and have great players.
PNR also seems to set the table for a high scoring offense. The Lakers were a high scoring offense with Kobe, Shaq etc. But Cronin's teams have been historically low scoring - both at Cinci and UCLA. Even last year's team was a low scoring team with a lot of scoring droughts. Just seems odd.
Would appreciate your perspective 💙💛
The answer on the recruiting PnR players has as much to do with the shift in style at the high school/AAU level. It’s much more iso focused in part because there’s a lack of top-end bigs spread out (the system to the pros consolidates talent at each level, so high school has the most talent spread out compared to other levels) and the rise of teams like the Warriors causing the next generation to focus more on outside shooting than getting to the rim. The Jaquez piece that the Ringer did a few weeks ago kind of highlighted that he was an outlier compared to his peers in that he idolized Kobe and that iso style.
Doesn’t really matter that PnR is a bread-and-butter play at the NBA level when a lot of the high school coaches gravitate towards a different style (specifically a lot of motion-based offenses that put stress on the defense by forcing mismatches). It makes for a situation where PnR becomes a teaching concept at the college level instead.
Thanks Dimitri for your insight. So I am wondering what your opinion of Cronin is as a teacher and developer of the PNR...
I think he can do it, but Cronin's offensive philosophy while at UCLA has been to custom-bake the offense based on what the personnel he has can and can't do. That's why the Final Four run was so heavily built on isolation scoring, because he had one player on an all-time March heater (Juzang) and another ruthlessly-efficient iso player (Jaquez) and it made sense to go through them (that team and year after both featured top 15 offenses per KenPom). Last year's squad, which finished 21st in offensive rating, did similar things but was really locked in on defense which drove the offense (think about how many transition points UCLA scored last year). I think if Cronin had a point guard who could run PnR effectively (as much as I love Tyger, he also was not a great PnR point guard) and bigs who could fill in, you'd see a lot more of that in the offense.
It's also the downside of Cronin, because his focus (rightly, in my opinion) is on the defensive side and having that be as great as possible. It's a March-focused plan rather than a whole-season plan, which is why Cronin has had more success in March than someone like Tommy Lloyd who runs a much-prettier offense than Cronin. UConn got a lot of flowers for its offense last year but they also had a top 10 defense that could keep them in games when the offense would occasionally stagnate. I think you'll have games where the offense looks out of sorts with Cronin because, again, it's not his area of concern, and frankly I think a Cronin that went hunting after systemic improvements on offense falls into the same trap that doomed Howland.
Thanks for your thoughtful perspective.
It will be interesting to see how the 'tryouts' go for the players, what roster changes Cronin makes and the outcomes moving forward. We will see how next year takes shape in terms of fundamentals, chemistry, character etc.
I agree Cronin would be doomed if he recruited elitist players like Howland did as that group was sorely lacking in character.
Imho, it's also sad that the landscape of college sports has changed for the worse - NIL was bound to become corrupt as money leads to greed which leads to lack of loyalty. It's much harder to build greatness.
So lots of challenges and issues ahead but I am still hoping Cronin can overcome them and develop a successful team.
💙💛
Thank you for that detailed analysis - much appreciated. I'd also add, if I may, that not only does the high screen action inevitably lead to at least one offensive foul for Bona but it also all too often leads to him being out of position on the offensive glass which leads to his low rebounding numbers...
When our offense was working, it wasn't so much ISO and certainly not PNR but being patient enough to let Bona establish position at the low post and take entry passes to either take on the single or pass out of the double to a shooter who either spotted up or cut behind the doubling defender. We've gotten away from that -and the shooting has sunk since we are inconsistent - and, as the effort has flagged in the last two games, we get back to the bad we thought we'd escaped.
The thing is, shooting might be inconsistent but effort shouldn't be and that has to begin from within. Of course Jaime is a unique dude, but I'm with Mick in saying that a lot of flaws can be what they are and have to be coached around or accounted for, but lack of effort isn't and can't be one of them.