Huge loss for the program though. Had Mick known earlier, we'd go after other PG prospects. Nix committed so early, all the other PG prospects were probably turned off.
think of all the players we have had over the years who would have never come to UCLA if this had not happened earlier. Little chance Kevin Love, Shabazz Muhammed, Lonzo Ball (definitely not) would have come to UCLA. Perhaps not even Jrue Holiday.
Offered $300k a year vs one season at UCLA? Why would you ever go to college? A lot more decommitments are coming soon with the g-league now able to offer 6 figure salaries. I think it will be better for college basketball it the long run. Many coaches are going to adjust how they recruit. Many of the one and dones won’t even be recruited anymore as it will become a waste of everyone’s time. Time to get college basketball back to wear it was 20 years ago
no kidding. I think this is the beginning of the flood gates opening up. Nobody is going to turn down $300k or $500k or whatever the number is (read conflicting reports at BSPN) in favor of 1 year of college. Nor should they.
I concur on this being an interesting and well-written article, Dimitri. But one wonders what we see if we move the camera from the 2,000 foot level up to the 20,00 foot level and look around? (It's a tortured metaphor; work with me here.)
On Friday and soon thereafter, states like Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. will be opening up from their COVID-19 lock-downs while we are in a state where the governor seems to be averse to relaxing restrictions. We are currently in wait-and-see mode until 15 May and longer in Northern California.
Please note that I am NOT trying to inject politics into OTMB (per Nestor's cardinal rule that BN remain politics-free) but I am calling attention to the fact that circumstances might dictate these restrictions remain in place for the greater societal good. In that case, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC might not have a 2020 football or basketball season. Or, at the very least, it might severely hobble the PAC-12 while other states (notably the SEC states) will be open for biz.
This would understandably influence any young prospect's college choices and, similarly, the effect would ripple through the rosters causing athletes to hit the transfer portals or future drafts to save conserve their "youth" and marketability.
Of course, this also applies to other sports as well where there are out-of-state college or professional alternatives.
My opinion is that, over the long haul, losing one 5-star recruit will be the least of UCLA's problems should California be late in returning to a semi-normal state of affairs.
I don't think COVID-19 had an effect on this as much as the G-League offering $300k a year (plus apparently paying cost-of-education as well) to put elite players in a better basketball environment. And I don't think it will have much effect on recruiting going forward tbh.
In this particular instance, the pandemic could've forced him and his family into a situation where they needed the money right away rather than having to wait. Obviously just random speculation but there definitely are scenarios in which COVID had an effect on this.
That's a separate issue than the one War Planner brought up, and kinda reinforces my point. As the tweet you linked suggests, if the NCAA had NIL already and student-athletes had a way to profit off their ability and talent already, then Nix would theoretically still be here. But $300k a year is hard to pass up, especially if you need the money now. There could be players from families who need the money in non-pandemic years that make the same choice if it's available.
Happens. Side note: One of my favorite parts of TMB so far has been your participation in the comments. It always bummed me out that you didn't get involved as often on BN.
That's a pretty material difference. I can see a guy turning down 300k, which is really take home of about 150k after taxes (the G League select team is in California), but 500k is a different story.
I've seen $300k be the rumored amount for Nix. Green was set at $500k, but the base level is $150k I think. And even then, he's considered a lottery pick in 2021 right now, so it's not crazy to take the money now knowing a bigger payday is waiting.
..on this gentleman's situation, I agree. It's much like Herschel walker eschewing his senior year at the University of Georgia for a $5 million personal services contract with the USFL.
However, Dimitri, I do believe that there exists the potential for a whole host of transfers and pro-draft movement if the restrictions I outlined hobbles the PAC-12.
it might be a little late in the game for this, but I wonder if it would affect their decision based on a possible diluted 2021 draft class. This would happen if guys who would have otherwise gone pro returned to college because they are never going to have the opportunity to improve their draft stock at a combine or private workouts. I mean, really, who is going to draft Chris Smith at this point? Nobody knows what has become of his basketball skills in the last two months, which will become at least 4 months if not 5 or 6 before the draft. Some guys may return to college and wait until next year because of that.
Why don't you think this will impact recruiting? If G-League is offering players 6 figures, they'd be stupid not to take it. Many highly amp'd players flame out in the NCAA and wouldn't be paid that much the next year anyway. Also, as far as recruiting, if teams are working really hard to recruit 5 star players who commit only to de-commit a few months before the season after all other high tier players have committed, explain to e how that doesn't have much effect on recruiting. For example, I bet UCLA would rather have worked really hard on a 4 star PG who they know isn't going to have a change of heart for a 6 figure salary right now... they'll be thinking about that in the future. If they don't, then their just burying their heads in the sand.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that COVID-19 won't have much of an effect on recruiting. The G-League being a legitimate option for elite talent will very much affect recruiting.
This is the start of a trend. I think colleges should focus their recruiting on the 4-star and below prospects (maybe other than K and Calipari). This would bode well for UCLA - I think Coach Cronin has proven to be one of the best at getting the most out of these mid-level prospects. Better chance also that they will hang around for more than 1 year. It's a new world.
Can't really blame him. He wasn't going to be at UCLA for more than a year anyway and that's a hell of an offer.
If Chris Smith doesn't come back, the conference is going to have a ridiculous amount of parity. There probably won't be a single top-25 team in the conference but like 5 or 6 from 26-40. With no Smith I'd probably say ASU is the early favorite but I think any of UCLA, ASU, or Oregon could make a case. If Smith does come back, I think we are the definite favorites.
This seems like a pretty isolated incident, because the G League option is so new. In future cycles I think Mick will have a good grasp of which recruits want to take that professional route and navigate that obstacle with some success, but it definitely sucks to lose that kind of talent so late in the cycle.
Calipari already bitching LOL: “My issue with the G League trying to entice players by giving them more money, is not the kids that you’re getting,” Calipari said this week, as Jon Hale of USA Today relays. “It’s the thousands of ninth and 10th graders that think that’s how they’re going to make it, when you and I know it’s going to be 2%. We’re not talking 50. It will be thousands and thousands and thousands.”
Hey Cal: They think that this is how they are going to make it....as opposed to playing for 3 months "in college" at Kentucky? What's the difference? Thousands of young kids aspire to make it YOUR way....by going to college for 3 months and then straight to the NBA. Very few succeed. And thousands are going to aspire to do it the g league way. And the ones that do not get the offer, will be forced to play in college or not play at all. Why don't you just be honest and say that this hurts your business model?
I actually think this G league select team isn't going to last very long, at least in it's current form. It will ultimately result in guys again being drafted straight out of high school. What's going to happen when it's more than 10 guys a year opting for this route? No room for them all on one team. And really, what's the point? If they are going to be in the G league, let them be in an organization. No need to have this fake wall between 18 yr olds and professional basketball. If the NBA doesn't want 18 yr olds in the NBA, but will allow them in the g league, why not let NBA teams draft them and require a year of g league? Really like the baseball model where they can all try to get drafted, but if they fail, they can go to college but must stay for 3 years.
Again, I think the NBA would like to just draft players out of high school like before, but the NBAPA does not want that. This is the NBA trying to do a work-around, and I think it will last until the NBAPA gives in.
Guess I’m kinda of dumb-dumb here, but....can you explain why this has any correlation to the Under Armor deal ? Is the idea that with Nike they’d simply get more players and better depth ?
I did get a bit of a chuckle at the speculation that if things don’t work out for Dashean in his G League path to the NBA, he could use his $300k to go back and get his college degree....just don’t see it.
Not being a Nike school locks them out of a ton of top talent simply because Nike supports a ton of the top AAU programs, and it's a bit of an open secret that the shoe companies guide players from their programs to colleges signed up with them. If you want more on this, I recommend HBO's recent documentary The Scheme.
As for the college thing, yeah I always doubt that players would do that with their money, but the option is always there. And I've seen reports that the G-League program also pays for education on top of the contract, which is a real sweetener on top of the contracts if it's real.
I'm shocked and disappointed the headline didn't read "Daishen Nixes UCLA". That was such a gimme, D.
But I'm more disappointed about the basketball team. I get that next year may still be fine, but damn I was really looking forward to next year being great. I miss basketball being great.
Can't blame the kid for jumping at $300k. I don't make that.
Under Armor has been an absolute disaster. I like what they did with our uniforms and colors scheme but other than that they have done serious harm to our major programs. We signed with them at the worst possible time. It was right before they started crashing and burning. I can’t believe I’m saying this right now because I absolutely hated our deal with adidas (they marketed our school so poorly) but ever since signing with UA recruiting in both basketball and football has gone to levels of shit we have never seen before.
the recruiting effect seems overstated. I'd like to see a list of players who turned down UCLA because UA makes their uniforms and shoes. Not sure I'd want that type of player in the program anyway.
While disappointing, I do personally love it when the teams with non-blue chip recruits are the ones that make noise during March Madness. I also think that UCLA basketball success is actually insulated a bit from the potential future in which all of the real blue chip recruits end up going to the G-League (or any other parallel), as Cronin has proven capable of building high level teams with 3/4 star recruits. If anything, the end of the one and done system will expose mediocre coaches such as Calipari and Miller. In the end, the G-League will likely only be snagging the absolute top 5 (and some 4) star recruits, like the #1 PG in the nation. No matter what, they can't afford to drop 300k on every player and it's telling that it took someone of Nix's background to even get that much.
Wishing him the best.
Huge loss for the program though. Had Mick known earlier, we'd go after other PG prospects. Nix committed so early, all the other PG prospects were probably turned off.
Quality article, Dimitri. Tracy said little if anything on BRO and Bruinsnation hasn't even reported this yet.
Not surprised. Bound to happen.
think of all the players we have had over the years who would have never come to UCLA if this had not happened earlier. Little chance Kevin Love, Shabazz Muhammed, Lonzo Ball (definitely not) would have come to UCLA. Perhaps not even Jrue Holiday.
Offered $300k a year vs one season at UCLA? Why would you ever go to college? A lot more decommitments are coming soon with the g-league now able to offer 6 figure salaries. I think it will be better for college basketball it the long run. Many coaches are going to adjust how they recruit. Many of the one and dones won’t even be recruited anymore as it will become a waste of everyone’s time. Time to get college basketball back to wear it was 20 years ago
no kidding. I think this is the beginning of the flood gates opening up. Nobody is going to turn down $300k or $500k or whatever the number is (read conflicting reports at BSPN) in favor of 1 year of college. Nor should they.
I concur on this being an interesting and well-written article, Dimitri. But one wonders what we see if we move the camera from the 2,000 foot level up to the 20,00 foot level and look around? (It's a tortured metaphor; work with me here.)
On Friday and soon thereafter, states like Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. will be opening up from their COVID-19 lock-downs while we are in a state where the governor seems to be averse to relaxing restrictions. We are currently in wait-and-see mode until 15 May and longer in Northern California.
Please note that I am NOT trying to inject politics into OTMB (per Nestor's cardinal rule that BN remain politics-free) but I am calling attention to the fact that circumstances might dictate these restrictions remain in place for the greater societal good. In that case, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC might not have a 2020 football or basketball season. Or, at the very least, it might severely hobble the PAC-12 while other states (notably the SEC states) will be open for biz.
This would understandably influence any young prospect's college choices and, similarly, the effect would ripple through the rosters causing athletes to hit the transfer portals or future drafts to save conserve their "youth" and marketability.
Of course, this also applies to other sports as well where there are out-of-state college or professional alternatives.
My opinion is that, over the long haul, losing one 5-star recruit will be the least of UCLA's problems should California be late in returning to a semi-normal state of affairs.
I don't think COVID-19 had an effect on this as much as the G-League offering $300k a year (plus apparently paying cost-of-education as well) to put elite players in a better basketball environment. And I don't think it will have much effect on recruiting going forward tbh.
In this particular instance, the pandemic could've forced him and his family into a situation where they needed the money right away rather than having to wait. Obviously just random speculation but there definitely are scenarios in which COVID had an effect on this.
That's a separate issue than the one War Planner brought up, and kinda reinforces my point. As the tweet you linked suggests, if the NCAA had NIL already and student-athletes had a way to profit off their ability and talent already, then Nix would theoretically still be here. But $300k a year is hard to pass up, especially if you need the money now. There could be players from families who need the money in non-pandemic years that make the same choice if it's available.
Okay yeah maybe I just didn't read through it clearly enough
It’s cool. I think we’re on the same page on this.
Happens. Side note: One of my favorite parts of TMB so far has been your participation in the comments. It always bummed me out that you didn't get involved as often on BN.
can someone explain if it is $300k or $500k? I've seen 300k a lot, but also $500k. ESPN reports $500k here: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29043828/sources-top-high-school-player-jalen-green-enter-nba-g-league-pathway
That's a pretty material difference. I can see a guy turning down 300k, which is really take home of about 150k after taxes (the G League select team is in California), but 500k is a different story.
I've seen $300k be the rumored amount for Nix. Green was set at $500k, but the base level is $150k I think. And even then, he's considered a lottery pick in 2021 right now, so it's not crazy to take the money now knowing a bigger payday is waiting.
..on this gentleman's situation, I agree. It's much like Herschel walker eschewing his senior year at the University of Georgia for a $5 million personal services contract with the USFL.
However, Dimitri, I do believe that there exists the potential for a whole host of transfers and pro-draft movement if the restrictions I outlined hobbles the PAC-12.
https://twitter.com/DanWolken/status/1255146984261869573?s=19
Take it with whatever grain of salt you need to
was this tweeted before or after Nix announcement? In other words, is it Nix?
Before, and I don't think it was ever confirmed but it's a fairly safe assumption
it might be a little late in the game for this, but I wonder if it would affect their decision based on a possible diluted 2021 draft class. This would happen if guys who would have otherwise gone pro returned to college because they are never going to have the opportunity to improve their draft stock at a combine or private workouts. I mean, really, who is going to draft Chris Smith at this point? Nobody knows what has become of his basketball skills in the last two months, which will become at least 4 months if not 5 or 6 before the draft. Some guys may return to college and wait until next year because of that.
Why don't you think this will impact recruiting? If G-League is offering players 6 figures, they'd be stupid not to take it. Many highly amp'd players flame out in the NCAA and wouldn't be paid that much the next year anyway. Also, as far as recruiting, if teams are working really hard to recruit 5 star players who commit only to de-commit a few months before the season after all other high tier players have committed, explain to e how that doesn't have much effect on recruiting. For example, I bet UCLA would rather have worked really hard on a 4 star PG who they know isn't going to have a change of heart for a 6 figure salary right now... they'll be thinking about that in the future. If they don't, then their just burying their heads in the sand.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that COVID-19 won't have much of an effect on recruiting. The G-League being a legitimate option for elite talent will very much affect recruiting.
This is the start of a trend. I think colleges should focus their recruiting on the 4-star and below prospects (maybe other than K and Calipari). This would bode well for UCLA - I think Coach Cronin has proven to be one of the best at getting the most out of these mid-level prospects. Better chance also that they will hang around for more than 1 year. It's a new world.
Can't really blame him. He wasn't going to be at UCLA for more than a year anyway and that's a hell of an offer.
If Chris Smith doesn't come back, the conference is going to have a ridiculous amount of parity. There probably won't be a single top-25 team in the conference but like 5 or 6 from 26-40. With no Smith I'd probably say ASU is the early favorite but I think any of UCLA, ASU, or Oregon could make a case. If Smith does come back, I think we are the definite favorites.
This seems like a pretty isolated incident, because the G League option is so new. In future cycles I think Mick will have a good grasp of which recruits want to take that professional route and navigate that obstacle with some success, but it definitely sucks to lose that kind of talent so late in the cycle.
Calipari already bitching LOL: “My issue with the G League trying to entice players by giving them more money, is not the kids that you’re getting,” Calipari said this week, as Jon Hale of USA Today relays. “It’s the thousands of ninth and 10th graders that think that’s how they’re going to make it, when you and I know it’s going to be 2%. We’re not talking 50. It will be thousands and thousands and thousands.”
Hey Cal: They think that this is how they are going to make it....as opposed to playing for 3 months "in college" at Kentucky? What's the difference? Thousands of young kids aspire to make it YOUR way....by going to college for 3 months and then straight to the NBA. Very few succeed. And thousands are going to aspire to do it the g league way. And the ones that do not get the offer, will be forced to play in college or not play at all. Why don't you just be honest and say that this hurts your business model?
I actually think this G league select team isn't going to last very long, at least in it's current form. It will ultimately result in guys again being drafted straight out of high school. What's going to happen when it's more than 10 guys a year opting for this route? No room for them all on one team. And really, what's the point? If they are going to be in the G league, let them be in an organization. No need to have this fake wall between 18 yr olds and professional basketball. If the NBA doesn't want 18 yr olds in the NBA, but will allow them in the g league, why not let NBA teams draft them and require a year of g league? Really like the baseball model where they can all try to get drafted, but if they fail, they can go to college but must stay for 3 years.
Again, I think the NBA would like to just draft players out of high school like before, but the NBAPA does not want that. This is the NBA trying to do a work-around, and I think it will last until the NBAPA gives in.
Guess I’m kinda of dumb-dumb here, but....can you explain why this has any correlation to the Under Armor deal ? Is the idea that with Nike they’d simply get more players and better depth ?
I did get a bit of a chuckle at the speculation that if things don’t work out for Dashean in his G League path to the NBA, he could use his $300k to go back and get his college degree....just don’t see it.
Not being a Nike school locks them out of a ton of top talent simply because Nike supports a ton of the top AAU programs, and it's a bit of an open secret that the shoe companies guide players from their programs to colleges signed up with them. If you want more on this, I recommend HBO's recent documentary The Scheme.
As for the college thing, yeah I always doubt that players would do that with their money, but the option is always there. And I've seen reports that the G-League program also pays for education on top of the contract, which is a real sweetener on top of the contracts if it's real.
Would really be nice if we could snag Makur Maker
I'm shocked and disappointed the headline didn't read "Daishen Nixes UCLA". That was such a gimme, D.
But I'm more disappointed about the basketball team. I get that next year may still be fine, but damn I was really looking forward to next year being great. I miss basketball being great.
Can't blame the kid for jumping at $300k. I don't make that.
Under Armor has been an absolute disaster. I like what they did with our uniforms and colors scheme but other than that they have done serious harm to our major programs. We signed with them at the worst possible time. It was right before they started crashing and burning. I can’t believe I’m saying this right now because I absolutely hated our deal with adidas (they marketed our school so poorly) but ever since signing with UA recruiting in both basketball and football has gone to levels of shit we have never seen before.
the recruiting effect seems overstated. I'd like to see a list of players who turned down UCLA because UA makes their uniforms and shoes. Not sure I'd want that type of player in the program anyway.
Recruits not liking the look of UA shoes have literally nothing to do with it.
It's all the Nike and Adidas summer basketball circuits. If a recruit plays for the Nike circuit, they're often "pushed" to go to Nike schools.
https://usatodayhss.com/2014/basketball-recruits-shoe-contracts-nike-adidas
Here's a pretty rudimentary article going over what I'm talking about, and I think Sole Influence delves into it in depth.
you didn't catch the facetiousness. Also, our basketball recruiting has not been all that bad. Football is another story.
While disappointing, I do personally love it when the teams with non-blue chip recruits are the ones that make noise during March Madness. I also think that UCLA basketball success is actually insulated a bit from the potential future in which all of the real blue chip recruits end up going to the G-League (or any other parallel), as Cronin has proven capable of building high level teams with 3/4 star recruits. If anything, the end of the one and done system will expose mediocre coaches such as Calipari and Miller. In the end, the G-League will likely only be snagging the absolute top 5 (and some 4) star recruits, like the #1 PG in the nation. No matter what, they can't afford to drop 300k on every player and it's telling that it took someone of Nix's background to even get that much.