UCLA played an ok game… way too many turnovers. But I will say that they also made possible a lot of the looks they had. They did something different on offense and passed it around…. Yeah they forced it, but I would prefer that to aimless dribbling any day of the week
Cronin put the blame squarely on Tyger and Jaime today. From Ben Bolch:
"Eighteen turnovers to me is like 25 to other coaches, so beyond unacceptable. Our supposed best two players got nine turnovers, and all of them unforced. At no point did they get trapped, so those two single-handedly let the other team back in the game."
My opinion is that if we continue to play disinterested, we’re in danger of losing the next game too. But WSU went into todays game with only 7 scholarship players as a huge chunk of the team was out due to illness so a lot of their remaining players like Gueye played heavy minutes. Hopefully we can turn that to our advantage
Some of those TO passes were to spots players were expected to be. We ran the shot clock down too often because of the lack of movement and in-play adjustments. These result in desperation futile shots.
I was at Pauley and 3 things stood out to me in a rather strange 2nd half. In the first half, UCLA was whistled for 3 or 4 fouls in the entire half. The 2nd half started with 3 fouls called in the 1st minute. The refs clearly decided to change the way they were calling the game. In the same first couple of minutes, UCLA's most experienced players committed careless turnovers. What may not have been visible to TV viewers was Mick Cronin exhorting the team to push the ball up the court. And, in trying to push the ball up the court, we failed at being quick without hurrying. I thought we rushed things and played out of control as evidenced by the sloppiness of play and carelessness with the ball. The defense became more passive as more and more fouls were called on the Bruins. At one point, I think the disparity was 14 or 15 to 3 in the 2nd half. In the final minutes, the Bruins slowed it down a bit and made an effort to feed Bona, particularly Bailey. I'm still not sure why we try and force bounce passes into Bona in traffic. It's not smart. Perhaps, Tyger Campbell is primarily a half court point guard. Jaquez may be primarily a half court performer. But, we do need movement in the half court without the ball. Perhaps we should find out what pace works best for us within our skill set. 18 turnovers isn't Bruin basketball under Mick Cronin.
Hey bro, so you were at Pauley last night also. Your comments and others' are precisely what I would have said, if only I could analyze it as well as you guys do. I went to the game late because we carpooled with my former colleague, visiting from Florida where he retires. We knew we would win the game hands down. But they better not be lackadaisical anymore, be it at home or away.
Ben Bolch wrote an article in the LA Times three days ago with the headline including UCLA needs "fixes". Watching the game on TV, the second half looked like a repeat performance of both USC games and the Arizona game--did not recognize any meaningful "fixes". Reckless passing and ball handling leading to turnovers, the offense dribbling around the perimeter without creating open shots and BTW 26% shooting from the three. Watching Cronin's presser, I got the feeling he is blaming the players too much and not questioning the preparation by the coaches. He repeated several times that he felt the second half folly was because the "players think they were going to win anyways and were screwing around". Of course, I do not know what is done for game preparation but I do think that Bolch's headline about the team needing "fixes" is spot on.
My friend, as I said it to ArmyBruin, I am saying it to you too. Being lackadaisical is a tantamount to playing with fire. They were burned badly already. We are now in the homestretch. We need to ratchet it up so that the NCAA selection committee won't send us to play in some boondocks to be knocked out at the first round by some unknown teams.
What's the distinction between calling out your players and throwing your players under the bus? That approaches "I can't shoot the ball for them" territory.
CMC could use some self reflection.
Tyger's oft made comment, "We need to have trust in our coaches" is sounding more and more hollow.
That’s an interesting question. I think the distinction is what the criticism is about - basic skills or “advanced skills”. These are basic skills that our players honed in elementary, middle, high schools, AAU camps, etc. Skills that by the time Cronin receives these players in practice, they’re expected to master. I think being able to complete an inbound pass or a short pass around a defender counts as a basic skill that our vets failed pretty terribly last night. Another thing I consider a basic skill is keeping the ball high on offensive rebounds. Bona was a lot better in that regards last night and it’s should be such an ingrained instinct that even guards like Jaylen Clark don’t bring the ball down on offensive rebounds when they’re right under the basket.
Advanced skills, imo, would include shooting and executing an offense within the game plan, low post offense and defense, executing defensive game plan (knowing rotations, proper stances, hedges, and positioning), learning and memorizing opposing sets.
I think Cronin was right to criticize our seniors for the nine turnovers between them. A lot of those TOs stem from lazy and unfocused passing. But during the SC or Arizona game where he criticized some of the defensive lapses, Cronin does says he needs to do a better job of preparing the team.
Tbh I don’t know what the solution is for consecutive games of poor focus and effort. It could be that Tyger is feeling burnout after playing here for 5 years. Maybe Jaime is tired of facing double and triple teams nearly every time down the court and his focus then slips on defense. Hopefully the coaching staff can figure that part out.
The players need to think about what kind of legacy they want to leave at the finality of their Bruin years, how they want their names to be measured and cast. "I wish I had tried harder" is regretfully late. And a "We wasn't into it" performance against our archenemy is unworthy of the Four Letters.
Good post, Chenalex. Whatever, the coach is responsible for making his players better. This year, we've seen Bona get better. The starters are very talented but seem to be in stasis regarding development. The others are not getting their chances.
Our team showcased itself with a dazzling display of offensive prowess and defensive skills last December at Madison Square Garden. It was championship caliber indeed. Then they thought, I am guessing, that this was it. The season to follow would be cakewalk. Maybe they read my ecstatic observation about the team going a long way, if not all the way possibility. My goodness, please. Do not count your chicks before the eggs are even hatched.
Don’t tell me, just don’t tell me … my friend that words, my words have such power, lol Nah, I am kiddin’ but tomorrow, please, for heaven’s sake, do us proud, guys. I will be there to support you and put on a good show please!
I agree with you. My post was more on my opinion on what the line was between a coach properly calling out his players or improperly throwing them under the bus.
As you note below, we’ve seen what they can do, and they definitely played better earlier in the season. So the problem, in my eyes, isn’t game planning or skill. It’s effort and that is probably easier to address and yet, the most frustrating problem to encounter.
It’s hugely disappointing that Cronin chose to use the press to call out his players. Players expect criticism of their performances by their coaches to be given directly, not via a third party, and certainly not publicly.
College athletes expect criticism from their coaches. In fact, based on my experience, I would say that the great majority of student-athletes want critical feedback from their coaches because it helps them improve. But the expectation of players is always that they will be protected by their coaches and that they will be shown a basic level of respect as members of the team in good standing.
Cronin used terrible judgment in blaming players publicly. The lessons that his players need to learn can and should be discussed face to face or, in some instances, in a team meeting.
Whining about the lapses and shortcomings of individual players in a public forum is fundamentally no different from the blame shifting of Steve Alford. Good coaches give their players credit for wins and take responsibility for losses. Bad coaches point fingers instead of taking responsibility. Let’s hope that Cronin doesn’t repeat this mistake.
I’ll respectfully disagree that I think Cronin made a mistake in his postgame comments. There’s no way the comments that he made were news to either Tyger or Jaime.
And like I said, the mistakes Tyger and Jaime made were very basic mistakes. It’s like if I’m in my calculus class at ucla and I failed the midterm because I didn’t multiply two numbers properly. Obviously my calculus professor would already expect me to know how to do basic math by the time I take his class, and if he tells me it’s my fault I failed the test, then ya, that’s acceptable. It’s the same thing here.
I also want to point out that Cronin this year isn’t any different Than Cronin of the last few years. Yet guys like Tyger, Singleton, and Jaime all chose to play for him for multiple years and Juzang even came back despite his draft stock being as high as it ever was. This isn’t like the late Howland and Alford eras where players were transferring or declaring for the draft too early. Our only transfer is Kyman to Wyoming because of playing time issues and he’s barely seeing the floor in Wyoming which leads me to believe he would not have been part of the rotation at ucla. To me, this shows that players actually like playing for Cronin and being coached by him, whatever they may entail.
Your analogy fails. If you fail your calculus exam, you certainly expect to be held accountable by your professor. A consequence for your failure may be that you will be summoned to a meeting in your professor’s office in which you will be rightly criticized for lack of effort of failure to apply what you have been taught. This type of outcome is an expected and acceptable part of the educational experience. However, if your professor held a press conference to announce your failure, this would NOT be part of a normal educational experience. Specifically, it would likely be counterproductive to your education and it would potentially damage your relationship with your professor.
Collegiate coaches are supposed to be educators. They work with student-athletes, not professionals. They should set a good example for the young men and women in their programs.
Please understand that I would fully expect any coach to criticize any player who fails to meet the coach’s reasonable expectations. However, that criticism should be given in an appropriate manner. I reject the false dilemma you pose in which a player who is deserving of criticism must either be publicly scolded and shamed or not criticized at all. As in the example you provide, it would have been sensible for Cronin to meet with his players privately to deliver his criticism. Instead he chose to vent to the media.
Also, you seem to equate players staying in a program with acceptable performance by a coach. If that’s true, then you must believe Steve Alford and Jorge Salcedo were good coaches. Unlike professional athletes, student-athletes have far less power and influence, and they are far more vulnerable. Collegiate coaches have a responsibility to protect and guide the student-athletes in their program. These student-athletes deserve better than a public upbraiding, and I see no reason to believe that publicly blaming individual student-athletes accomplishes any legitimate educational goal.
As further follow up to this game, Cole Bajema was suspended by the PAC12 for his egregious foul against Adem Bona at the end of the first half. It is utterly ridiculous that this player wasn't immediately rejected on Thursday night.
I saw that. The conference upgraded his foul to a flagrant 2 and then wont Comment on whether those officials will referee again. This is why our officials will always be terrible.
UCLA played an ok game… way too many turnovers. But I will say that they also made possible a lot of the looks they had. They did something different on offense and passed it around…. Yeah they forced it, but I would prefer that to aimless dribbling any day of the week
Cronin put the blame squarely on Tyger and Jaime today. From Ben Bolch:
"Eighteen turnovers to me is like 25 to other coaches, so beyond unacceptable. Our supposed best two players got nine turnovers, and all of them unforced. At no point did they get trapped, so those two single-handedly let the other team back in the game."
My opinion is that if we continue to play disinterested, we’re in danger of losing the next game too. But WSU went into todays game with only 7 scholarship players as a huge chunk of the team was out due to illness so a lot of their remaining players like Gueye played heavy minutes. Hopefully we can turn that to our advantage
Some of those TO passes were to spots players were expected to be. We ran the shot clock down too often because of the lack of movement and in-play adjustments. These result in desperation futile shots.
I was at Pauley and 3 things stood out to me in a rather strange 2nd half. In the first half, UCLA was whistled for 3 or 4 fouls in the entire half. The 2nd half started with 3 fouls called in the 1st minute. The refs clearly decided to change the way they were calling the game. In the same first couple of minutes, UCLA's most experienced players committed careless turnovers. What may not have been visible to TV viewers was Mick Cronin exhorting the team to push the ball up the court. And, in trying to push the ball up the court, we failed at being quick without hurrying. I thought we rushed things and played out of control as evidenced by the sloppiness of play and carelessness with the ball. The defense became more passive as more and more fouls were called on the Bruins. At one point, I think the disparity was 14 or 15 to 3 in the 2nd half. In the final minutes, the Bruins slowed it down a bit and made an effort to feed Bona, particularly Bailey. I'm still not sure why we try and force bounce passes into Bona in traffic. It's not smart. Perhaps, Tyger Campbell is primarily a half court point guard. Jaquez may be primarily a half court performer. But, we do need movement in the half court without the ball. Perhaps we should find out what pace works best for us within our skill set. 18 turnovers isn't Bruin basketball under Mick Cronin.
Hey bro, so you were at Pauley last night also. Your comments and others' are precisely what I would have said, if only I could analyze it as well as you guys do. I went to the game late because we carpooled with my former colleague, visiting from Florida where he retires. We knew we would win the game hands down. But they better not be lackadaisical anymore, be it at home or away.
Ben Bolch wrote an article in the LA Times three days ago with the headline including UCLA needs "fixes". Watching the game on TV, the second half looked like a repeat performance of both USC games and the Arizona game--did not recognize any meaningful "fixes". Reckless passing and ball handling leading to turnovers, the offense dribbling around the perimeter without creating open shots and BTW 26% shooting from the three. Watching Cronin's presser, I got the feeling he is blaming the players too much and not questioning the preparation by the coaches. He repeated several times that he felt the second half folly was because the "players think they were going to win anyways and were screwing around". Of course, I do not know what is done for game preparation but I do think that Bolch's headline about the team needing "fixes" is spot on.
My friend, as I said it to ArmyBruin, I am saying it to you too. Being lackadaisical is a tantamount to playing with fire. They were burned badly already. We are now in the homestretch. We need to ratchet it up so that the NCAA selection committee won't send us to play in some boondocks to be knocked out at the first round by some unknown teams.
Quick thoughts on Cronin:
What's the distinction between calling out your players and throwing your players under the bus? That approaches "I can't shoot the ball for them" territory.
CMC could use some self reflection.
Tyger's oft made comment, "We need to have trust in our coaches" is sounding more and more hollow.
That’s an interesting question. I think the distinction is what the criticism is about - basic skills or “advanced skills”. These are basic skills that our players honed in elementary, middle, high schools, AAU camps, etc. Skills that by the time Cronin receives these players in practice, they’re expected to master. I think being able to complete an inbound pass or a short pass around a defender counts as a basic skill that our vets failed pretty terribly last night. Another thing I consider a basic skill is keeping the ball high on offensive rebounds. Bona was a lot better in that regards last night and it’s should be such an ingrained instinct that even guards like Jaylen Clark don’t bring the ball down on offensive rebounds when they’re right under the basket.
Advanced skills, imo, would include shooting and executing an offense within the game plan, low post offense and defense, executing defensive game plan (knowing rotations, proper stances, hedges, and positioning), learning and memorizing opposing sets.
I think Cronin was right to criticize our seniors for the nine turnovers between them. A lot of those TOs stem from lazy and unfocused passing. But during the SC or Arizona game where he criticized some of the defensive lapses, Cronin does says he needs to do a better job of preparing the team.
Tbh I don’t know what the solution is for consecutive games of poor focus and effort. It could be that Tyger is feeling burnout after playing here for 5 years. Maybe Jaime is tired of facing double and triple teams nearly every time down the court and his focus then slips on defense. Hopefully the coaching staff can figure that part out.
Re poor focus and effort
The players need to think about what kind of legacy they want to leave at the finality of their Bruin years, how they want their names to be measured and cast. "I wish I had tried harder" is regretfully late. And a "We wasn't into it" performance against our archenemy is unworthy of the Four Letters.
Good post, Chenalex. Whatever, the coach is responsible for making his players better. This year, we've seen Bona get better. The starters are very talented but seem to be in stasis regarding development. The others are not getting their chances.
Our team showcased itself with a dazzling display of offensive prowess and defensive skills last December at Madison Square Garden. It was championship caliber indeed. Then they thought, I am guessing, that this was it. The season to follow would be cakewalk. Maybe they read my ecstatic observation about the team going a long way, if not all the way possibility. My goodness, please. Do not count your chicks before the eggs are even hatched.
We all were thinking that. We saw our team play to their potential. We Bruin fans do know it's not over until it is over.
Don’t tell me, just don’t tell me … my friend that words, my words have such power, lol Nah, I am kiddin’ but tomorrow, please, for heaven’s sake, do us proud, guys. I will be there to support you and put on a good show please!
You are lucky to attend. Go Bruins!
I agree with you. My post was more on my opinion on what the line was between a coach properly calling out his players or improperly throwing them under the bus.
As you note below, we’ve seen what they can do, and they definitely played better earlier in the season. So the problem, in my eyes, isn’t game planning or skill. It’s effort and that is probably easier to address and yet, the most frustrating problem to encounter.
It’s hugely disappointing that Cronin chose to use the press to call out his players. Players expect criticism of their performances by their coaches to be given directly, not via a third party, and certainly not publicly.
College athletes expect criticism from their coaches. In fact, based on my experience, I would say that the great majority of student-athletes want critical feedback from their coaches because it helps them improve. But the expectation of players is always that they will be protected by their coaches and that they will be shown a basic level of respect as members of the team in good standing.
Cronin used terrible judgment in blaming players publicly. The lessons that his players need to learn can and should be discussed face to face or, in some instances, in a team meeting.
Whining about the lapses and shortcomings of individual players in a public forum is fundamentally no different from the blame shifting of Steve Alford. Good coaches give their players credit for wins and take responsibility for losses. Bad coaches point fingers instead of taking responsibility. Let’s hope that Cronin doesn’t repeat this mistake.
I’ll respectfully disagree that I think Cronin made a mistake in his postgame comments. There’s no way the comments that he made were news to either Tyger or Jaime.
And like I said, the mistakes Tyger and Jaime made were very basic mistakes. It’s like if I’m in my calculus class at ucla and I failed the midterm because I didn’t multiply two numbers properly. Obviously my calculus professor would already expect me to know how to do basic math by the time I take his class, and if he tells me it’s my fault I failed the test, then ya, that’s acceptable. It’s the same thing here.
I also want to point out that Cronin this year isn’t any different Than Cronin of the last few years. Yet guys like Tyger, Singleton, and Jaime all chose to play for him for multiple years and Juzang even came back despite his draft stock being as high as it ever was. This isn’t like the late Howland and Alford eras where players were transferring or declaring for the draft too early. Our only transfer is Kyman to Wyoming because of playing time issues and he’s barely seeing the floor in Wyoming which leads me to believe he would not have been part of the rotation at ucla. To me, this shows that players actually like playing for Cronin and being coached by him, whatever they may entail.
Your analogy fails. If you fail your calculus exam, you certainly expect to be held accountable by your professor. A consequence for your failure may be that you will be summoned to a meeting in your professor’s office in which you will be rightly criticized for lack of effort of failure to apply what you have been taught. This type of outcome is an expected and acceptable part of the educational experience. However, if your professor held a press conference to announce your failure, this would NOT be part of a normal educational experience. Specifically, it would likely be counterproductive to your education and it would potentially damage your relationship with your professor.
Collegiate coaches are supposed to be educators. They work with student-athletes, not professionals. They should set a good example for the young men and women in their programs.
Please understand that I would fully expect any coach to criticize any player who fails to meet the coach’s reasonable expectations. However, that criticism should be given in an appropriate manner. I reject the false dilemma you pose in which a player who is deserving of criticism must either be publicly scolded and shamed or not criticized at all. As in the example you provide, it would have been sensible for Cronin to meet with his players privately to deliver his criticism. Instead he chose to vent to the media.
Also, you seem to equate players staying in a program with acceptable performance by a coach. If that’s true, then you must believe Steve Alford and Jorge Salcedo were good coaches. Unlike professional athletes, student-athletes have far less power and influence, and they are far more vulnerable. Collegiate coaches have a responsibility to protect and guide the student-athletes in their program. These student-athletes deserve better than a public upbraiding, and I see no reason to believe that publicly blaming individual student-athletes accomplishes any legitimate educational goal.
As further follow up to this game, Cole Bajema was suspended by the PAC12 for his egregious foul against Adem Bona at the end of the first half. It is utterly ridiculous that this player wasn't immediately rejected on Thursday night.
I saw that. The conference upgraded his foul to a flagrant 2 and then wont Comment on whether those officials will referee again. This is why our officials will always be terrible.
And they reviewed the play and still took the wrong action. Really pathetic.
Two teams ranked above us already fell today. Virginia lost to Virginia tech and Kansas had another big loss.