Dent had three points? (he did nail the assists with 15). Bruins waste a lot of time when they are behind. I hate it when they let the clock run down before starting the play. This was a winnable game, I'm blaming Cronin.
So I am wondering when my friend bruin4ever is going to finally catch anti-cronin fever 🤣
I decided to transplant the basics of my last game thread comment over here as it aligns with the post-game better...
Cronin can't help himself:
He said on the postgame talk with Josh and Tracy that he'd have a hell of a team if his five guys could play offense and then bring in another five on defense.
Another classic moment of throwing HIS players under the bus. He recruited every one of these guys.
And why didn't Freeny play? Why didn't cronin play him?
Freeny could have helped with his defense and perhaps could have made a few buckets too, as my fave player Perry was non-existent 😞
It's hard to know what the Tourney Committee will decide, but this loss hurts us for sure.
"may have been a better option than Perry", we didn't know that Perry would never show. We didn't, perhaps someone closer to the team has an idea if he was bugged by something or someone.
Ms. Tamara, apparently I missed a really great game (LOL) by having some weekend fun at the casino instead... :-)
I suppose some credit goes to MN, as they also beat MSU at home back on Feb. 4 and lost at Michigan by only 10 points last week Tuesday. Seems the Gophers also have the Bruins number, as they've won the last 4 meetings (the first 2 were in the NCAA tournament).
Anyway, I noticed HC Cronin appeared much more restrained than usual during his first losing postgame interview after not giving a rat's a** about the MSU students. He and his team are rapidly running out of time and excuses. But the season still isn't over yet... ;-)
P.S.---Despite laying an egg in MN, I think the Bruins are invited to the Big Dance if they can somehow pull off another Cronin against #12 Nebraska at Pauley tomorrow night.
Nebraska moved up in the AP poll to #9 this week, and their NET ranking is now at #12. Their KenPom.com DRtg is at #5, so the Bruins may have a really tough time trying to score, especially if their $3M man averages only 1 point per $million and Perry and Booker contribute zeros again.
This game was a Jekyll/Hyde deal. Unfortunately Hyde showed up. Totally winnable game against a crummy opponent. No idea how this team doesn’t show up to play. It’s almost mental.
To be fair, these days, does any school know the answer to that question at this point in a season? I mean, for one example, 9 of the 13 scholarship players at Michigan this season weren't there at this time last season. I'm not saying Cronin will recruit or our NIL will buy the roster that Michigan has put together or making an excuse for this roster construction - just making the point that projecting "next year's roster" in this era is largely - and sadly - a fool's errand.
Because of the lack of playing time, I think Freeny would be more likely leave UCLA, but Perry leaving for more NIL money wouldn't be surprising either.
Not looking too good for next season so far, unless a number of talented players can be purchased from the "free agent market". I don't see any promising high school players signing letters of intent, either. I think the latter seems more challenging for HC Cronin, since he's given an excuse for this season's results that he no longer has multiple seasons in order to develop his players (at least on defense)...
You should really get to know Cory Close and how she, her staff and the players have built the women's program. You would be amazed at how much goes into what her team has become and the impact it continues to make.
Talent is just the floor as Coach Close would say. And if you followed the program closely you would know that the reason this team wins goes far beyond talent and is a personification a Wooden's Pyramid of Success. Wooden was her mentor, btw.
And that’s all great, but that team has possibly 4 of the Top 10 picks in the next WNBA draft, almost certainly 4 in the first round. There may not be another Big 10 player taken in the first round. That just isn’t ever going to happen in the men’s game. Sure, it is easy to say just due like the women do, but they are almost completely different games at this point in the NIL landscape.
"That just isn’t ever going to happen in the men’s game." The UK was stacked in 2012 and 2015, with six players selected in each year. During the 2015 draft, they had four players taken in the lottery alone. (Note that UK won the Championship in 2012, but didn't make the Final in 2015, when Duke won.) High expectations for the ladies this year. I hopium that CCC winning proves DD wrong, and I hopium High Floor Low Ceiling Mick Cronin winning out proves me wrong.
I generally agree with this statement but I have not watched the team so I cannot be sure. I do not know if close is a great coach or not but it seems like the women's team has so much talent to make up for her previous deficiencies which others have called out in the past
I think HC Close is currently in a similar situation that HC Cronin was in during the 2022-23 season. Both coaches benefited from retaining talented players over multiple seasons to make a serious run at a championship. Sure hope the Lady Bruins don't suffer any devastating injuries like the men's team did during their 2023 postseason run.
UCLA might make the big dance, but they certainly aren’t going anywhere.
Meanwhile, Mara and Berke are enjoying life under better coaches… Mara has turned into a rebounding beast under a change of scenery and Berke is actually one of Nebraska’s best defenders… who knew? Seaucla and myself. Most of these players just need new scenery.
I’ve been hoping for some new scenery myself for years. Still be hoping for another 2 I imagine
yan vide starting to round into form at Loyola these days too. I thought all you cronistas said cronin developed players? These players are demonstrating they have some level of talent… they certainly didn’t all leave for more money… at least two of them were forced out. Cronin isn’t a good coach, it’s time to admit you were wrong
Even guys like William Kyle and Devin Williams looking better at other programs. Mack has been injured… and Dylan Andrews certainly still looks lost at Boise state these days
is he really? Look where he's playing and the competition. Same competition Jamerson played against last year at USD, and Dominick Harris 2 years ago. I think if you would Dailey on that roster he'd be averaging 18 ppg. If Vide transfers to a Big 10 school next year, look for him to barely play and average 4-5 ppg.
You’re right, as a pure rebounds per/minute number it’s about the same… I guess when you get the playtime you deserve all numbers go up.
You do have a tendency to nit pick everything I say, but coming from a die hard Cronin fan who will go to the grave refusing to admit that Cronin is a bad coach, I’d expect nothing less. I don’t understand the Cronin infatuation, but as a numbers guy, I’m guessing you could put something together that shows just how mediocre Cronin truly is.
The irony of being called a die hard Cronin fan is that I actually am not. He wouldn’t have been my choice to hire and I don’t love his preferred playing style. I like teams who run when they can, shoot the 3, and don’t depend on iso ball.
That said, I also believe it is important to have continuity in a program. Serious programs don’t fire coaches early. We might be reaching that inflection point, but while fans love to “tarmac” coaches, stability is important. The extension after last season was obviously a mistake, and it eliminated a lot of choice from the program.
And the reason you feel like I “nitpick” you is I don’t like be false narratives to support a predetermined opinion. Mara has not become a rebounding savant. He looks a lot like a player going through a 3rd year development and continuing to improve. You also can’t say that some of the base wasnt set in 2 years under Cronin. The loss of Mara was crippling for the roster this season , especially with the timing. And based on complaints from other programs, I have some serious questions about Michigan tampering with players not in the portal.
Hoo boy. I have thoughts, but don't want to go down that rabbit hole because that was then, and more important is the now. (Besides, hindsight is 20/20.) It's an entertaining question, but as productive as, "Whom would you have hired instead?"
I remember our infamous jelly donut 2.0 (no relation to our beloved Stan's Donuts 🤣) stating that continuty in culture, in keeping our unstable football program intact (oxymoron intended 🤣), was the rationale for keeping chipster alfraud as our head 'coach' in football.
cronin is in his 7th season... that's too much continuity for all things mick, on and off the court. After the Euro fail, he should have been shown the exit door.
So your message to future UCLA coaches is that you will dumped for a down year, the year after being a nearly wire to wire top 10 team who was under seeded and had 2 starters go down to injury before losing on a logo 3 in the Sweet 16, all while trying to navigate a changing NIL recruiting landscape with almost zero institutional support. Sure, that’s an attractive recruiting pitch.
That makes sense, and thanks for your time. You are one of the best analytical minds in these threads and have good data to back your opinions.
I am curious what your thoughts are on cronins ability to “develop” players. Mara aside, vide, Berke, Mack, Andrews, Kyle, and d Williams all got kicked to the curb for a “better” set of players. The “better” players clearly take time to develop too and don’t appear to be substantially better than the last set of guys. Do you still feel that cronin can develop players as that was the reason many touted to give cronin more time. Most of the guys mentioned would have stayed to play under cronin if I had to guess where he could have proven his ability to develop them. Instead he chose to trade up when he really didn’t get anybody that much better… he traded the opportunity to develop defensive talent for players that could play offense but lack serious defensive ability… I.e Tyler and dent
I feel like the concept of players leaving and continuing to improve their game is an indictment of Cronin's ability to develop players. Like obviously Sebastian Mack and Jan Vide were going to get better no matter where they went and even if they stayed here. But they were not a good fit here. Honestly if a player leaves and regresses that would be more of an indictment of Cronin because why did he recruit a player like that?
And now that money has taken over where players are going to go, the coaches actually have pretty limited control over where players are going to end up and whether they stay.
Take a look at our borderline or definitely not going to play in the NBA guys. Perry, Booker, Dailey. Those guys need to max their earnings in college. This off season, whatever we can offer them, if another school is able to tack on $100k, they are probably gone. That's just the reality of college sports these days.
And besides, you chose to address an outlier of my comment instead of the real point… which is to say that most of the players cronin kicked off the team seem to be doing just fine at other programs. Are they nba caliber players? Of course not, but they don’t look a whole lot worse then the current crop of players that cronin replaced them with
Dent had three points? (he did nail the assists with 15). Bruins waste a lot of time when they are behind. I hate it when they let the clock run down before starting the play. This was a winnable game, I'm blaming Cronin.
I hate the way they get into desperation shot clock time, too, William, they end up throwing up clangers.
you just can't win when you play defense like that. we shot 51%, 42% from three, and out-rebounded them by 10.
Great write-up DD!!! 💙💛
So I am wondering when my friend bruin4ever is going to finally catch anti-cronin fever 🤣
I decided to transplant the basics of my last game thread comment over here as it aligns with the post-game better...
Cronin can't help himself:
He said on the postgame talk with Josh and Tracy that he'd have a hell of a team if his five guys could play offense and then bring in another five on defense.
Another classic moment of throwing HIS players under the bus. He recruited every one of these guys.
And why didn't Freeny play? Why didn't cronin play him?
Freeny could have helped with his defense and perhaps could have made a few buckets too, as my fave player Perry was non-existent 😞
It's hard to know what the Tourney Committee will decide, but this loss hurts us for sure.
Freeny playing? That won’t solve the Bruin not showing up puzzle.
Freeny could not solve everything but he may have been a better option than Perry. And the problems are much greater than just not showing up, imho 💙💛
"may have been a better option than Perry", we didn't know that Perry would never show. We didn't, perhaps someone closer to the team has an idea if he was bugged by something or someone.
I believe that when a player is struggling, you need to at least try another option, even for a short while.
He was so close to saying, "I can't defend for them."
Well cronin also stated that they didn't follow instructions, which he has stated multiple times in various ways 🤣
Ms. Tamara, apparently I missed a really great game (LOL) by having some weekend fun at the casino instead... :-)
I suppose some credit goes to MN, as they also beat MSU at home back on Feb. 4 and lost at Michigan by only 10 points last week Tuesday. Seems the Gophers also have the Bruins number, as they've won the last 4 meetings (the first 2 were in the NCAA tournament).
Anyway, I noticed HC Cronin appeared much more restrained than usual during his first losing postgame interview after not giving a rat's a** about the MSU students. He and his team are rapidly running out of time and excuses. But the season still isn't over yet... ;-)
P.S.---Despite laying an egg in MN, I think the Bruins are invited to the Big Dance if they can somehow pull off another Cronin against #12 Nebraska at Pauley tomorrow night.
Nebraska moved up in the AP poll to #9 this week, and their NET ranking is now at #12. Their KenPom.com DRtg is at #5, so the Bruins may have a really tough time trying to score, especially if their $3M man averages only 1 point per $million and Perry and Booker contribute zeros again.
They can't win anything away from home. One in done in the tournament given they even make it that far.
I could definitely see this one coming, team is just awful outside of the western time zone. Just come home and split, and should be a 9/10 seed
But really no excuse for being awful anywhere. The women seem to handle the travel with grace, competitive greatness, and victories.
This game was a Jekyll/Hyde deal. Unfortunately Hyde showed up. Totally winnable game against a crummy opponent. No idea how this team doesn’t show up to play. It’s almost mental.
Re: Referendum point
I think that YoungestTo500™ learned a hard lesson on roster construction going forward. Which begs the question: What is next year's roster?
When Pollyanna Dorlis' optimism and patience flag, then you know there's trouble in River City.
Jeez Louise Tyler Skyy, and Donovan are all seniors!
To be fair, these days, does any school know the answer to that question at this point in a season? I mean, for one example, 9 of the 13 scholarship players at Michigan this season weren't there at this time last season. I'm not saying Cronin will recruit or our NIL will buy the roster that Michigan has put together or making an excuse for this roster construction - just making the point that projecting "next year's roster" in this era is largely - and sadly - a fool's errand.
Ok, so every year is a crapshoot. I don't have faith in Mick tossing the dice.
It's reasonable to think that next year will be worse.
Especially if we lose Perry... I know he had an off game but he is still a great player.
Because of the lack of playing time, I think Freeny would be more likely leave UCLA, but Perry leaving for more NIL money wouldn't be surprising either.
Cupboard will be bare.
Not looking too good for next season so far, unless a number of talented players can be purchased from the "free agent market". I don't see any promising high school players signing letters of intent, either. I think the latter seems more challenging for HC Cronin, since he's given an excuse for this season's results that he no longer has multiple seasons in order to develop his players (at least on defense)...
I'm old enough to remember when his teams played better towards the end of the season.
It feels like roster construction should include a crystal ball factor of "who can travel well across time zones?"
Hey J, tragically funny my friend 🤣 or cronin can ask Coach Close for guidance in how to travel well, compete and win.
I think her answer is to just have significantly more talent than anyone else in the conference.
You should really get to know Cory Close and how she, her staff and the players have built the women's program. You would be amazed at how much goes into what her team has become and the impact it continues to make.
Talent is just the floor as Coach Close would say. And if you followed the program closely you would know that the reason this team wins goes far beyond talent and is a personification a Wooden's Pyramid of Success. Wooden was her mentor, btw.
And that’s all great, but that team has possibly 4 of the Top 10 picks in the next WNBA draft, almost certainly 4 in the first round. There may not be another Big 10 player taken in the first round. That just isn’t ever going to happen in the men’s game. Sure, it is easy to say just due like the women do, but they are almost completely different games at this point in the NIL landscape.
"That just isn’t ever going to happen in the men’s game." The UK was stacked in 2012 and 2015, with six players selected in each year. During the 2015 draft, they had four players taken in the lottery alone. (Note that UK won the Championship in 2012, but didn't make the Final in 2015, when Duke won.) High expectations for the ladies this year. I hopium that CCC winning proves DD wrong, and I hopium High Floor Low Ceiling Mick Cronin winning out proves me wrong.
I checked with my bestie Google, who further noted:
UConn: 5 players in 2006.
UNLV: 4 players in 1991.
Duke: 4 players in 1999.
UNC: 4 players in 2005 & 2012.
Villanova: 4 players in 2018
And I am in favor of having significantly more talent in the Conference!
I generally agree with this statement but I have not watched the team so I cannot be sure. I do not know if close is a great coach or not but it seems like the women's team has so much talent to make up for her previous deficiencies which others have called out in the past
I think HC Close is currently in a similar situation that HC Cronin was in during the 2022-23 season. Both coaches benefited from retaining talented players over multiple seasons to make a serious run at a championship. Sure hope the Lady Bruins don't suffer any devastating injuries like the men's team did during their 2023 postseason run.
UCLA might make the big dance, but they certainly aren’t going anywhere.
Meanwhile, Mara and Berke are enjoying life under better coaches… Mara has turned into a rebounding beast under a change of scenery and Berke is actually one of Nebraska’s best defenders… who knew? Seaucla and myself. Most of these players just need new scenery.
I’ve been hoping for some new scenery myself for years. Still be hoping for another 2 I imagine
yan vide starting to round into form at Loyola these days too. I thought all you cronistas said cronin developed players? These players are demonstrating they have some level of talent… they certainly didn’t all leave for more money… at least two of them were forced out. Cronin isn’t a good coach, it’s time to admit you were wrong
Even guys like William Kyle and Devin Williams looking better at other programs. Mack has been injured… and Dylan Andrews certainly still looks lost at Boise state these days
is he really? Look where he's playing and the competition. Same competition Jamerson played against last year at USD, and Dominick Harris 2 years ago. I think if you would Dailey on that roster he'd be averaging 18 ppg. If Vide transfers to a Big 10 school next year, look for him to barely play and average 4-5 ppg.
How exactly has Mara turned into a rebounding beast?
You’re right, as a pure rebounds per/minute number it’s about the same… I guess when you get the playtime you deserve all numbers go up.
You do have a tendency to nit pick everything I say, but coming from a die hard Cronin fan who will go to the grave refusing to admit that Cronin is a bad coach, I’d expect nothing less. I don’t understand the Cronin infatuation, but as a numbers guy, I’m guessing you could put something together that shows just how mediocre Cronin truly is.
The irony of being called a die hard Cronin fan is that I actually am not. He wouldn’t have been my choice to hire and I don’t love his preferred playing style. I like teams who run when they can, shoot the 3, and don’t depend on iso ball.
That said, I also believe it is important to have continuity in a program. Serious programs don’t fire coaches early. We might be reaching that inflection point, but while fans love to “tarmac” coaches, stability is important. The extension after last season was obviously a mistake, and it eliminated a lot of choice from the program.
And the reason you feel like I “nitpick” you is I don’t like be false narratives to support a predetermined opinion. Mara has not become a rebounding savant. He looks a lot like a player going through a 3rd year development and continuing to improve. You also can’t say that some of the base wasnt set in 2 years under Cronin. The loss of Mara was crippling for the roster this season , especially with the timing. And based on complaints from other programs, I have some serious questions about Michigan tampering with players not in the portal.
There's continuity, and on the other hand, there's continuity.
The Bruins should retain DSF because continuity.
OTOH, schools have quickly pulled the hook, continuity be d@mned, without bad consequences to their programs or their reputations.
The concern for continuity is overstated.
The inflection point for mbb was reached long ago.
What the moment you would have fired Cronin?
Hoo boy. I have thoughts, but don't want to go down that rabbit hole because that was then, and more important is the now. (Besides, hindsight is 20/20.) It's an entertaining question, but as productive as, "Whom would you have hired instead?"
Well...
I remember our infamous jelly donut 2.0 (no relation to our beloved Stan's Donuts 🤣) stating that continuty in culture, in keeping our unstable football program intact (oxymoron intended 🤣), was the rationale for keeping chipster alfraud as our head 'coach' in football.
cronin is in his 7th season... that's too much continuity for all things mick, on and off the court. After the Euro fail, he should have been shown the exit door.
Agreed.
So your message to future UCLA coaches is that you will dumped for a down year, the year after being a nearly wire to wire top 10 team who was under seeded and had 2 starters go down to injury before losing on a logo 3 in the Sweet 16, all while trying to navigate a changing NIL recruiting landscape with almost zero institutional support. Sure, that’s an attractive recruiting pitch.
That makes sense, and thanks for your time. You are one of the best analytical minds in these threads and have good data to back your opinions.
I am curious what your thoughts are on cronins ability to “develop” players. Mara aside, vide, Berke, Mack, Andrews, Kyle, and d Williams all got kicked to the curb for a “better” set of players. The “better” players clearly take time to develop too and don’t appear to be substantially better than the last set of guys. Do you still feel that cronin can develop players as that was the reason many touted to give cronin more time. Most of the guys mentioned would have stayed to play under cronin if I had to guess where he could have proven his ability to develop them. Instead he chose to trade up when he really didn’t get anybody that much better… he traded the opportunity to develop defensive talent for players that could play offense but lack serious defensive ability… I.e Tyler and dent
I feel like the concept of players leaving and continuing to improve their game is an indictment of Cronin's ability to develop players. Like obviously Sebastian Mack and Jan Vide were going to get better no matter where they went and even if they stayed here. But they were not a good fit here. Honestly if a player leaves and regresses that would be more of an indictment of Cronin because why did he recruit a player like that?
And now that money has taken over where players are going to go, the coaches actually have pretty limited control over where players are going to end up and whether they stay.
Take a look at our borderline or definitely not going to play in the NBA guys. Perry, Booker, Dailey. Those guys need to max their earnings in college. This off season, whatever we can offer them, if another school is able to tack on $100k, they are probably gone. That's just the reality of college sports these days.
And besides, you chose to address an outlier of my comment instead of the real point… which is to say that most of the players cronin kicked off the team seem to be doing just fine at other programs. Are they nba caliber players? Of course not, but they don’t look a whole lot worse then the current crop of players that cronin replaced them with